BIODIESEL Debunked

[niles500]

<<<I also saw some of the research on switchgrass as a fuel - this is the stuff that rows naturally every year along freeways - with the freeway managment people simply mow and let rot where it was cut.  The switchgrass is a more stable plant with low water (rain water is enough to keep it going), and it's EVERYWHERE >>>

One site said that HEMP had the highest biomass btu's per lb., lowest grow cost, and cost of rendering, and needed no fertilizers - Besides weed grows everywhere -  I never know when to believe these claims though as there are many HEMP "supporters" out there "hyping" that product too - LOL

[Jerry32]

Why is the subject around bio deisel I thought the main Idea was to find alternative fuel and I believe before all is over that will come to fruition. Hydrogen is fuel and water has it so why not run on water?? Jerry

[niles500]

The amount of energy needed to break the valent H-H-O bond is equal to or greater than the potential energy of the resulting H2 and O2 - conservation of mass/energy - the only way this is possible to do at a reasonable cost is for a country like Iceland who has large amounts of thermal energy available at zero Co$t and endless abundance - FWIW

[Chaz]

Actually, I seen a seminar where they used a wind generator to break it down. I guess one could argue that "why not just use the electricity?" Good point.
  I like hydro and Honda is now introing their Hydro car. Should be interesting to see.

  Chaz

[niles500]

Chaz - One day I can envision everyone having a home energy generation system which would 1) recycle solid waste into fuel/organic compost 2) convert solar and wind into electricity/fuel 3) recycle effluent into fuel and potable water , etc..

But I don't think in this day and age you want your neighbor, possibly Homer Simspon, manufacturing, storing, fueling and transporting quantities of Hydrogen large enough to satisfy their fuel needs - I'm also sure your insurance company would cancel you - KABOOM!

[Lin]

There are lots of possibilities.  I do not know which one or combination will prove to be the most important in the future.  But I am sure that things will not stay as they are now.  It would be a pretty pessimistic view to believe that we are bond to petroleum forever.  I'm sure that there were people that thought nothing could replace whale oil in it's time.  A funny thing is that petroleum was once just considered a byproduct of the hunt for salt.  Countries would compete for salt resources and thought it essential for military superiority since, pre-refrigeratiion, it was the only way to preserve food; no food, no army.    During the American revolution, the salt resources of the colonies was one of the first things the British attacked.

A question that might be considered ridiculous:  Does anyone have their doubts that petroleum is a "fossil fuel" --really comes from dead dinosaurs?  If it does shouldn't we have at least a spoonful under some cemeteries by now?

[JohnEd]

Lin,

There was a NOVA thing in which they mentioned the existance of a theory that petro was formed long before the dinos.  They had some sort of "proof" in that petro failed some test that would make it dino.  Nobody had any pictures so I said "Screw it".

Has anybody ever checked to see if that tablespoon of oil was under that cemetary?  I thought not.  So that hasn't been debunked yet and there is still hope that "some" may still have the hope of lhaving a positive legacy.

Out of hand,

John

[Chaz]

Niles,
  Unfortunately, good ol' Homer has gasoline and propane right now also. And the "racing Homers" have Nitrous. You have a point about the F**KING insurance companies (not a good experience with them lately - can you tell?) but hydro has it's pluses and minuses also. Example: would you rather be in a house where a bottle of Hydro was opened up and let empty or a bottle of propane or a natural gas line?

  Just a thought,
   Chaz

[kyle4501]

HUGE difference between regulated & approved storage/ handling of fuels vs. good ole Homer doing what in hell he feels like - regardless if it is out of ignorance or stupidity. I don't much care if he blows up or burns down his place, but when he starts crossing his property lines & damaging property of others, I'll take issue with that potential threat.

As much as I loathe the gubberment telling me what I can & can't do, sometimes it has benefits.
Caviler attitudes towards stored energy can have dire consequences for others. It is the regulations that minimize the danger.    Ever wonder why gas pump nozzles are always aluminum? etc. . . .

We should at least try to be responsible with our hobbies. Thankfully, most of us are in practice if not advice.

The way I see the home brew working for me is if I heat the house with it & use it as fuel in all my vehicles, maybe even have a diesel generator? Then the TOTAL SYSTEM makes more sense.

BUT, there is only a limited number of people that can practice this before the available wvo is used up & then what?

And another thing, just how long do you think the polliticians are gonna stay out of it? As soon as they get involved, you can kiss the potential savings good bye.

[larryh]

Chaz  I FOUND IT the answer to all our problems. see attached

LarryH

[larryh]

Chaz sorry it put up wrong picture  I FOUND IT

[Chaz]

Thanx Larry, good fun!!!

  You're right Kyle, you're right. I'm ordering my Michelin man suit right now off ebay so I don't have to go out in the big bad world and take a chance of someone hurting me. That way I can wear it everywhere and be safe. Even in the tub.

  Sorry, that is sarcasm to the MAX!!! And meant. I'm not trying to pi$$ you or anybody else off. Believe me, I'm not. But two sayings come to mind: "Nothing ventured, nothing gained". And a native American saying that "If you do what you've always done, you'll be where you've always been".
   Let me try to explain............

My biggest, and I do mean BIGGEST issue with people is the total lack of personal responsibility. It makes me want to puke on a regular basis. (it will kill this country)And ol' next door Homer is case in point. You have a point.
                 BUT,
  Nothing and I do mean NOTHING is accomplished with out risk and sometimes disaster. Hell, look at electricity!!!!!!!!!!!! We CAN"T live without it and yet I'm sure the nay sayers thought the risk was too great back then. The automobile - same thing. And on and on.
  Hey, we can go back and forth ALL DAY LONG about issues like this. You can say that it is different because it's Homer doing it. But it's not. Ideas and inventions - to benefit everyone -  have to start somewhere and WAAAAAY more often than not it's in a garage rather than a lab.
  Sure there are risks. And sure things that are bad happen. It's the nature of the beast. Ever known somebody to be electrocuted??
  My point is that we can sit by idle and do nothing and try nothing and live an uneventful life and expect things to stay just the way they are forever, or we can encourage people to try things - responsibly - to benefit us all. I'm damn sure I like things better now than in the middle ages.
  I can't tell you all the benefits that COULD possibly happen from people making their own Hydro, responsibly,  because the future is not here yet. But I can tell you that I would like to encourage people to try to make life better for all of us - AND ESPECIALLY THE GENERATIONS TO COME, of which I have no stock in as I don't have kids. But I DO care about all people more than most - and hope that they dream up new ideas and try them to the best of their ability. -  As in war, yes, there will be an occasional battle lost, and you hope and pray it's not yours, but the object is to win the war. See the relativity?
  I have worked for big companies and there is a prevailing thought that they don't want to make the effort or put forth the expense to change anything for a profit. They want the "black" without ANY "red".  S**t, who don't??!!??!! But, for the vast majority of the time, that can't be the case. Someone HAS to invest and take the chance or we will never progress.
 
  Now, I hope that I have conveyed my thoughts well enough for you. (Personally, I doubt it for 2 reasons: I'm not a great literary figure, and I can't type. I have spent over an hour hunting and pecking this drivel out.) But either way, it probably doesn't matter. We see things differently. That is the beauty of life. We are not all the same. This is not a "dig" here, but I feel like I tend to be more of a "creative" and explorer, and care about people as a whole and others tend to care more about not creating waves and care more about their immediate people. Different views, different people. It's all good.

  One more quick saying that I tend to like: "If ya can't help them, at least don't hold them back".

  Ok so now I am done with these topics of alternatives. Yup, sorry. I'm burnt. I have finally succumb to the fate of what I think allot of those who also share my ideas feel: It's just not worth it. And isn't it ironic that I am the one who LIKES debate on topics like this because it furthers the knowledge and ideas that others may not have. Opposite views are a good thing. It makes one think.
  Anyway, it just takes too long, and trying to get out my ideas and feelings seems worthless. So I am retiring my alternative posts and just going to go about my merry way trying to implement them and learning from others who are of like mind. I was hoping to help some of you on this board with alternative ideas, but I'm spent on the idea. From now on, I'll just stick with the usual and nornal bus talk and learn all that I can from all you who are willing to share your time and knowledge. I can't thank you all enough for that. Hopefully I will be able to give a little now and again also.

   Chaz

  Now over 2 hours invested!      
  Sorry if ya have to reread it to try to get the jest of it.
 

[Lee Bradley]

Chaz,
You are confusing me; out here Hydro involves BIG concrete structures across rivers and spinning turbines converting nuclear energy into electricity. Hydrogen is not an energy source (unless you have a hydrogen mine) it is merely a transfer medium for nuclear energy. You use the primary energy source to make electricity, hydrogen, compressed air or whatever medium you like to convert to the energy you need at the other end; mechanical, heat, light, what have you.

[kyle4501]

Hey Chaz,
Debates are fun, as long as you don't think you will actually change everyone else's opinion. 

Those that can understand, usually do so quickly, those that can't never will. 

My intent is NOT "don't do wvo or bio", but to say that it ain't for everyone, & share a few points of concern that most proponents seem to gloss over.

What kind of group would we be if we intentionally misled someone into a project without helping them determine the full scope of the adventure?

As far as nothing ventured nothing gained goes  -  please don't leave out responsible planning. Have you ever heard "ignorance is no excuse"? 

I'm not necessarily opposed to taking risks, but I'd like to know as much as possible about the water before I jump in.

& I don't like to enter battles without knowing something about the enemy.

I'm all for inventions, but if you kill off too many people early on, you may not get the chance to work out all the bugs.

As for "If ya can't help them, at least don't hold them back", we are on the same page, just different paragraphs. If someone starts out with the wrong direction, he may not be able to financially recover. Do you see where blind encouragement may be a future roadblock?


I feel that you can teach some of the people some of the time, & some of the people can't be taught at all.

And Chaz, you haven't offended me & I don't think you ever will due to who you are. 

[JohnEd]

You guys are neat.

Thanks,

John