Some Interesting Reading For RV Owners

[Dallas]

I thought I'd post some interesting reading about RV laws.

I've read recently about not having marker lights on the corners of your RV, and am almost 30% certain the law in most states is that any vehicle over 80" wide must have marker/ID lights.
I did find references in the FMCSA website for marker/clearance/ID lights on commercial vehicles.
I'll check some more to see if I can find some marker light references for RV's.

One thing that is interesting, to me at least, is the requirement in some state for the propane to be turned off while on the road. I had always understood the law to be applicable only to hazard areas like tunnels and bridges.

I never travel with the propane on anyway, but what about those that have propane injection?


http://www.woodalls.com/output.cfm?ID=1195129

DF

[TomCat]

Dallas, I always have my 86 gallon propane tank on while traveling, with the blessing of the distributor who installed my propane system. (as far as safety...not taking legality into play)

My Onan 5.5kw genny is propane powered, and I often run it while underway.

I take the Haz Mat route if I encounter a tunnel or other propane restriction along my travels.

Jay
87 SaftLiner

[Kristinsgrandpa]

There are two sets of laws, differing because of year of manufacture of your coach.

One is:    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/393.11.htm

And the other is:   http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/571.108.htm

Also look at:   http://grote.com/tech/fmvss/bus_chart.html

I don't think it matters what the title says it is the size that they look at.

HTH,Ed

[JackConrad]

Dallas,
  Florida requires additional front and rear lights on any vehicle over 80" wide, and a driver's license one level above your standard license. That is why all duallies have the 3 light red cluster above the rear bumper in the center and the small lights on the flares. as well as the 5 amber lights on top of the cab. They are not real bad about enforcing the drivers license thing, which is good.  Paula only has a "standard" lincense and has been stopped a couple times at license/registration/insurance check points. But they do always check all the lights. I am not sure what the side lighting requirements are, but I think it depends on the length.  Jack

[Dallas]

There are two sets of laws, differing because of year of manufacture of your coach.

One is:    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/393.11.htm

And the other is:   http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/571.108.htm

Also look at:   http://grote.com/tech/fmvss/bus_chart.html

I don't think it matters what the title says it is the size that they look at.

HTH,Ed

Ed,
That's my whole point here...
Neither one of those links you listed were related to RV's, or Buses in private use.
Both were addressed to "Commercial Vehicles"

And yes, I know all about the commercial vehicle regulations, I lived with them and by them for over 35 years, what I am trying to determine is what things like lighting requirements are for private vehicles.

I just read the entire NJ drivers manual and nowhere in it was there a reference to lighting requirements, other than "should" or "might".
In fact, In New Jersey, you really don't even need to read the manual, just look at pictures and you can't miss getting a 100%

(Hey Nick, How was your last test scored?)

[Sean]

Hey Dallas,

I came looking for this thread after you posted about it here: http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=6470.0

So, drum roll please, here is the definitive lighting chart for the US:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/TBMpstr.html

Note that this is the federal chart.  But, through an interesting end-run around the constitution, which I have written about elsewhere, the feds force all states to adopt every provision of FMVSS 108 into their states' laws on pain of losing federal highway funding.  So this chart is law in all US states and territories.

Note also that this chart is based on size, not use.  It makes no difference if a vehicle is commercial or private.  You will even notice in the graphic that one of the illustrated vehicles is a class-C motor home.

Interestingly, size and weight regulations are treated differently, inasmuch as states are free to establish more restrictive rules on size and weight, with the exception of vehicles used in interstate commerce, as provided for in the constitution.  So commercial interstate vehicles with DOT registration numbers enjoy some leeway on certain routes ("STAA" routes), but, of course, are subject to other restrictions such as fuel tax apportionment, CDL requirements, log books, hours-of-service restrictions, etc.  I wrote about this here: http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=2764.msg25669#msg25669

Converting and operating a vehicle in compliance with all applicable laws does require some research.  Failing to follow the laws can be a costly mistake.  While it is unlikely that you will ever be pulled over for having, for example, no front clearance lights, or an awning attached to the vehicle that makes it wider than 102" (or 96" in some states), the fact is that you can be pulled over for it, and, in some states, you can be forced to fix the problem on the spot, or have the vehicle towed off the public roadways until the problem is corrected.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[Dallas]

Thanks Sean,

Everything you've said is so very true.

As large vehicle owners it is up to us to observe the laws of the feds and the states in order to keep them from making life even rougher on us.

Even though my bus is 55 years old, (no, not quite as old as Cat), I do try to keep up with the maintenance and lighting requirements.

If I have to crawl under it, I have a 9/16" combination wrench, (Brake Adjustment),and a grease gun, (lubrication), with me.

If I open the engine lid, I check the fluid levels, look for obvious leaks and check wear points on the shift rods and clutch.

Bottom line is that there is no reason not to follow the rules and regulations. they are there for our protection as well as the safety of those around us.

Keep on Bussin' - Safely!

Dallas

[Lee Bradley]

Sean,
Just a little nitpicking because I have spent the last 20+ years dealing with several 'Code of Federal Regulations'. The DOT regulations only apply to vehicles in commerce. It is a good idea to follow them as Dallas said but DOT regulations do not apply to us unless we are engaging in commerce. State traffic laws certainly apply to us and they generally incorporate the Federal regulations.

[Sean]

... The DOT regulations only apply to vehicles in commerce. ...

The page I have cited, and the federal code FMVSS 108, is not just a DOT regulation.  It is the federal motor vehicle safety standard, and it applies to all vehicles.  It contains specific provisions for vehicles of many types, including motorcycles, trucks, and passenger cars.

Do not confuse the FMCSA part of DOT with the NHTSA.  NHTSA makes rules for everyone, while the FMCSA makes rules only for motor carriers.  DOT makes other rules for everyone, too -- for example, you can't use an LP cylinder on a vehicle (even a private, non-commercial vehicle) unless it is DOT-certified -- but they are also concerned with things beyond motor vehicles.

So, nitpick all you want.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[Sean]

Well, I just went searching for an old post of mine, wherein I pontificated about FMVSS 108, but I can't find it on either board.  Likely it was during the older instantiation of this board, now long gone.  I did find this post, though (in regards to coach electrics and state laws): http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/16936.html#POST111918

So I will summarize here:

FMVSS 108 is a federal standard.  As Lee writes, it is entirely up to the states how they regulate, for example, equipment of motor vehicles.  This is guaranteed by the US constitution, which reserves certain rights to the states alone.  The exception is the federal interest in protecting interstate commerce, which is also stipulated in the constitution, which is why equipment of interstate commercial trucks is a federal matter.

What I meant, when I wrote earlier about an "end-run" around the constitution, is that the feds nevertheless have a way to force states to standardize these vehicle regulations, and that is by the threat of withholding federal highway funds.  The bottom line is that, to keep your state's share of those federal funds, your state must adopt all provisions of FMVSS 108.  (Remember the nationwide 55mph limit?  This was forced in much the same way.)  As such, when changes are proposed to FMVSS 108 on the federal level, all states are given a two-year comment period to object to the changes.  If a state does not object to any particular change, it becomes law prima facie.  If an objection is raised, then there is a whole separate process by which the rule-making is negotiated into law.

Can you imagine what it would be like for, say, General Motors to have to design 50 different versions of each car model to meet the legal requirements of 50 different states?  This is one of the principle reasons why vehicle safety regulations have, for the most part, been standardized at the federal level.  Note also that the US and Canada work on these rules jointly as a matter of international convenience.  Canada has even numbered their safety standard "108" to eliminate confusion.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion around what is a very arcane and otherwise uninteresting jumble of legalese.

-Sean
http://ourodyssey.blogspot.com

[HB of CJ]

Thank you everyone.  Another great post.  Way back in 1982, we illegally ran thru the Holland Tunnel East bound with our propane aboard turned on.  What you do not know can hurt you.   We lucked out. 

[Jerry32]

Thanks Sean nice to have the regs with pix  Jerry