Another bus off the road last night!

[lostagain]

Just heard on the radio, a Universal Coach Lines out of Vancouver lost control on a curve 11 km East of Rogers pass on TransCanada hwy and flipped over the concrete barrier. 2 dead.
I don't know the circomstances, but again I'm thinking: driving too fast!
I drive that road often as we live nearby. It was raining here last night, so it could've been raining up there, or snowing and/or foggy, as is often the case this time of year. Is it difficult driving? yes. You have to slow down and take it really easy. I drive our hockey team's coach over to games in Revelstoke, Sicamous, Kamloops once a week average and we are driving home in the middle of the night. Part of the difficulty is the transport trucks: some are tail gaters and want to get by. An inexperience bus driver might feel pressured to go faster than he should. (If they can drive this fast, why couldn't I?). Some trucks I catch up to because they are even wiser than me. They must be older...LOL.
Another part of the problem is that once you get familliar with you coach, you tend to drive it like a sports car. Sort of. If you know what I mean, in nice, sunny, summer time conditions, you can go with a certain cockiness that comes from the surefootedness of modern coaches, with powerful engines, tight power steering, Jake brakes, automatic transmissions, radial tires, etc. When conditions turn to winter in the mountains with snow and ice and darkness, maybe a inexperience driver doesn't reallize that the machine's 40 000 lbs might loose traction a lot more readilly than expected, an once it starts going, you can't do much at all to correct it.
So.....slow the fuc**r down before something bad happens.
Western Canada is experiencing a labor shortage at all levels of commerce and industry, including bus drivers. And there are more inexperienced drivers on the hwys than a few years ago.

[maria-n-skip]

Lostagain,

   It is sad.

  Here is some of the soft physics.

  Design speeds normally us Coefficient of Friction(static) at .40 for 30 mph to .31 for 70 mph.
  Coefficient of Friction(Static) for tire on snow is ~.30

  With out getting to hung up on the math when your speed is at posted on snow the physics
say you are going to slid on the curve. You can push physics occassionally but you will lose
in the end.

  Slow down so you can see another day.

Skip

[kd5kfl]

So, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature, and not possible to fool Father Physics?

[maria-n-skip]

KD5FKL,

   Yep the only problem is Father physics you know what the outcome is
Mother nature   all bets are off and one could be in for a very rude awakening.


  What does KD5FKL stand for?  That is a hard name to pronounce but I'll get it


Skip

[lyndon]

Western Canada is experiencing a labor shortage at all levels of commerce and industry, including bus drivers. And there are more inexperienced drivers on the hwys than a few years ago.

lostagain, I was thinking the same thing after the Greyhound left the road up north. They said it was a first year driver and I was reminded that the only time I left the road was in my first year on the road (29 year ago, thankfully). It's not likely I'd make the same mistake again.

OTOH, we know little else about these accidents, so far, so it's probably a bit early to draw conclusions. Every pro driver faces the dilemma of starting out with no experience and has to get it somehow. My greater concern -- as it relates to the labor shortage -- is that drivers are hired who might otherwise be excluded due to bad records, bad attitudes, and so on. (I remember when Greyhound was a tough gig to get; recently, they've been posting driver ads in Calgary more often than I've ever seen).

In any event, even the most experienced pro can have a bad day. We will find out when the investigation is done.

One lesson we can learn immediately from both of these accidents is the value of seat belts. Unless I'm mistaken, all fatalities were people ejected and crushed by the buses!

Don

[Barn Owl]

Link:

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=67160a7d-6fbf-4957-b339-7b2f3664d5c2&k=16344

[kd5kfl]

kd5kfl is an amateur radio call sign.

A hobby consisting of cantankerous old coots with poor social skills socializing with people they will never meet on the other side of the world.

A strange thing - every web forum where people get of their duff and really do things - flying, SCUBA, robotics, bus conversion, 4WD - infested with radio amateurs. You would think we are a large percentage of the population.

It could be worse - you could have to ask how to spell it.

[maria-n-skip]

KD5KFL,

     Well at least you didn't sign in morse code {I'd be lost}(do they still have that on the lic test?)

From the article Barn Owl linked I do hope it was not operator error.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Skip

[NJT5047]

Another thingy that'll get a bus out of the road in wet or slippery conditions is a retarder or Jake brake.   They should be turned off in slippery conditions and that alters the braking characteristics, which adds to the skills involved in driving the bus and adds to the attention level too.
Once the rear of a bus breaks loose....it's all over I would guess. 
Sad to see those buses wrecking and related deaths.  Especially the mother and daughter.
The business has had a bad time since 9/11.  Insurance is going to go through the roof.  Small operators may find that the costs of operation is greater than the fares..in too many situations it's 'break-even' now. 
Not sure how Canada's motor vehicle insurance works, but I'll assume it's similar to their Southern neighbors...EXPENSIVE!  And getting higher every day.  Between liability insurance and fuel costs...business is tough!
JR

 
 

[Barn Owl]

KD5KFL,

I am W3EYE. It was the call sign that my grandfather got in 1936 so it has a special meaning to me. My wife is KF4HZY. It has been a while since we have been on the air. We are in that phase of life where we are just not able to do all of our hobbies that we want to. Maybe after the kids are gone. I need to upgrade my class and my equipment. I would like to set the bus up with some radios one day. Neat idea to use your call like that. Too late for me so I added mine at the bottom.

Laryn

[Stan]

NJT5047. I expect the public liability loss by the insurance companies will hit everyone's auto insurance although the total loss for these two bus accidents is likely less than their normal weekly loss total. The BC bus would be insured under a government run insurance plan. Since Greyhound runs national and international they will be under some kind of federally regulated insurance company.

A company the size of Greyhound Canada probably self insures for collision. The Charter company may or may not carry collision (I don't know anything about the government run plan). I know one charter company in Alberta, that had a write off that the insurance paid for and when they had another a few months later, they didn't claim on insurance because of how it would affect their rates.

Any loss is paid for by the public, whether in higher insurance, higher fares or just more expensive groceries. "There ain't no free lunch".

[DrivingMissLazy]

KD5KFL,

I am W3EYE. It was the call sign that my grandfather got in 1936 so it has a special meaning to me. My wife is KF4HZY. It has been a while since we have been on the air. We are in that phase of life where we are just not able to do all of our hobbies that we want to. Maybe after the kids are gone. I need to upgrade my class and my equipment. I would like to set the bus up with some radios one day. Neat idea to use your call like that. Too late for me so I added mine at the bottom.

Laryn

Currently W6SDS, formerly W4MPD and K8CAL.  Licensed since l954.

Richard