New guy questions

[Coops6]

Ok guys, I am new to the bus conversion world.  I bought a 76 MCI 8 with an 8v71.  I drove it 1400 miles home.  It blows quite a bit of black smoke when accelerating.  The back of the bus is covered with soot and oil.  It used about 1.5 gal of oil on the way home too.  She also stalls when the outside temp. is high and she has been pushed hard.  After driving about 30min. hard in the heat, if you stop for a corner or something she will stall.  It starts right back up and goes fine. ?   Of course there are oil leaks in several places.  They were running Rotella 15 /40w oil.  I have read here that I need to change to 40w.  Now for my questions: 
1) I would like to change the air filter.  Where can I get one?  Should I or can I change the oil bath to a paper filter like a K&N? 
2) Should I be worried about the amount of oil used or try it with 40w first?
3) What could be causing the stalls?  I checked coolant level and made sure the loovers were open.  It doesn't have scoops on the back though.  It has happened about 4 times, but is very predictable.
4) Heat and oil pressure gauges don't work.  I have checked the wiring.  Do I need new ones?
5) I also need a new steering box.  Where could I get one?
Thanks for all of the help.
Chris

[kyle4501]

I'd start with the correct engine oil.

The stock oil bath air filter will do the job well & isn't that bad to service. I'd suggest leaving that change for later after you get the bigger things sorted out.

As for the rest, others will have to answer those.

[niles500]

Change the oil, oil filter, air filter, flush the radiator and colling system and install the CORRECT DD anti-freeze/coolant - then, under load, buy a IR thermometer and check your individual cylinder head temp, radiator temp etc. - then get back to us with your results - HTH

[RJ]

Chris -

1400 mi on 1.5 gallons is almost acceptable oil consumption for a high-mileage engine.  Consumption should go down somewhat when you switch to 40w.

Be sure to get CF-2 40wt, not the automotive stuff on the shelf at WallyWorld.  Chevron Delo 100, Shell Rotella, etc.  Most likely you will have to order it from your local fuel/oil distributor.  If you go to Chevron and Shell's websites, you can find distributor/dealer locators.  Available in gallon jugs (6/case), five gallon buckets and 55-gallon drums.  You'll need seven gallons for an oil/filter change, btw.

Are you sure it's an oil bath air filter?  IIRC, MCIs were available with either oil bath or paper filters.  Check yours first before spending $$ on a replacement.  If it's oil, service it per "DA BOOK".

When you say that the coach was blowing black smoke on acceleration, is this away from a dead stop, or were you climbing hills?  Two different scenes, two different possible solutions.  From a dead stop, either/or dirty air filter, or oversized injectors.  When climbing hills, too much fuel for the specific gear your in - time to downshift.

To determine the injector size, crawl into the passenger side of the engine compartment, pop off the valve cover, and look on the driver's side of the injectors.  You'll see a round disc on the side, about in the middle.  In the disc will be a letter/number, such as N60 or N65, let us know what you find. 

Memorize this phone number: 1-888-262-2434, between 9-5 M-F Eastern.  That's US Coach, Luke's business in NJ.  Luke's probably forgotten more about buses than we'll ever know.  Fair prices, ships same day via UPS when you use plastic money.   Strong supporter of the busnut community - support those who support us.

Look under the front end of your coach.  Do you have a large "slave cylinder" attached to the tie-rod with hydraulic lines going to it, or are the hydraulic lines going directly into the steering gearbox?  99% chance it's the former, not the latter.

If you have the slave cylinder, that's what's known as "power-assisted" steering.  Actually has a manual gearbox, the cylinder is where the assist is generated.

'Tis the nature of the beast to appear like the gearbox is bad, since it seems like lots of steering must be used to keep it going straight down the highway.  Simple tip:  Don't look directly in front of you.  Look 10 - 15 seconds ahead, and keep a light touch on the wheel.  Use the crown of the road to create a slight pull to the right, then control with just a bit of left lock tension on the wheel - not enough to turn the wheel, just enough to hold it straight against the pull of the road crown.  Takes practice, but saves $$$.

Also, "wander" can be created by bad radius rod bushings, especially in the rear.  Something else to check out.

The stalling might also be related to the temp and oil pressure gauges not working, as both are tied into the auto-shutdown designed to keep the engine from self-destructing.  Suggest you start with the sensors and go from there.

Scoops are a pseudo-fix.

Niles500's suggestion of changing the coolant is a good one, too.  While you're at it, take a hose and backwash the radiator fins, you'll be amazed at the gunk that flows out.  And while you've got the radiator doors open, make sure all the rubber seals are in good condition - they're critical to proper air flow and thus proper cooling.

Oh, and if you live in a non-freezing climate, you might consider changing from a straight 50/50 water/coolant mix to a 60/40, with the appropriate SCA balance.  Water cools better than coolant, and this slight shift will help w/o compromising the freeze characteristics very much, as well as keeping the rust-inhibitors and other additives necessary for proper protection.

Finally, might I encourage you to include your home city/state in your profile, or in a signature line at the bottom of your posts, to help other busnuts help you.  No sense one of us suggesting you take it to Luke's NJ shop if you live in MN, for example.  And you might just find that there's another busnut in a nearby community!

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Nick Badame Refrig/ACC]

Hi Chris,

Welcome!

You have some things to check out now. Thanks Guy's!

Good Luck with your bus
Nick-

[Coops6]

Hey thanks everyone.  I have my weekend full of work planned now!  I will update my profile so you know more about me.  Good ideas.  I live in Abilene, Kansas so I will most likely need the 50/50 blend for coolant.  The black smoke seems to just be when accelerating from a stop.  It is a 4 speed and smokes in every gear until the rpms get up.   I do have the slave cylinder on the steering.  She doesn't really wander, just has about 5" of play on the wheel.  There was a receipt from a bus shop in the bus that suggested replacing the gear box.  Personally I have driven a lot of farm trucks and didn't think twice about the wheel play until I saw the note from earlier service.  I am sure it doesn't have the correct DD coolant either.  Can I pick that up at our local DD service shop?  What is the difference in that and Prestone from Wally world?
Again, I am very thankful for the collective wisdom here.  I will keep you informed of my progress.
I have a family of 6 that is ready to hit the road!
Chris

[jjrbus]

welcom!  Better let your family of six hit the road, cause you are going to be home working on the bus
The V-71 series of engins are dry sleeved and do not require the high priced DD collant!! For the wet sleeved engins  it is critical. I would be leary adding anti freeze not knowing what is in there. If you know what is in there you can just add if not I would do a flush and fill making sure you get the heating system also.
Your first purchase of a tool should be a service manual.

[Sammy]

Chris, welcome to our world.....
I would do as everyone has already suggested - oil and filter change, coolant service, clean the radiators,etc. You do not need a K&N filter,keep it simple.
I would  install a manual oil pressure and coolant temp guage in the engine compartment.
You mention the dash guages don't work. You'll need electrical diagrams to properly test the wiring and
sending units.
The shutting down of the engine could be caused by the engine protection circuit - too hot,low oil pressure,etc.
Get yourself a maintenance manual, it's got electrical diagrams in it too.
Send me an e-mail if you need an electrical diagram, until you locate one.
Last thing I'll suggest is to make sure you perform a full inspection on your bus - brakes,suspension,steering ,etc. I would make this my first priority.
Best of luck with your new toy.
Sammy

[niles500]

To clarify my suggestion on antifreeze/coolant - DD calls for DDC Power Cool or its equivalent, and I use distilled water - HTH

[HB of CJ]

Hello Coops6..

Welcome to our demented and fun world.  Fantastic prior posts...certainly nothin' I can add toos.  Only thing right now I am thinking (trying too) is a quick and $cheap$ look-see. doing several things at one quickly and cheaply.   Stalling is not good.

Air and fuel.   That is what you want and need.  Yeah, service the oil bath air cleaner if you have one, (actually they are quite good) or change the filture if you have that type.  Then...if you have any rubber fuel lines now is the time to look....

.....and see if they are old or new.  You may not have ANY rubber fuel lines, but then again, maybe you dooss.  Old rubber lines swell up over time restricting the fuel flow.  You MAY have a fuel starvation problem.  Yeah, change out your fuel filtures.

The above two (2) things (or is it three?) are easily done and may address your stalling problems.  Black smoke may mean toos much fuel which also means not enough air.  Restricted air intake.  Stalling may mean not enough fuel at certain times.   Welcome to our world. 

[TomC]

8V-71- can use standard Prestone anti-freeze.  I use 50/50 mix with distilled water.  If you change the air cleaner, go to a Donaldson designed for the air flow of your engine. K&N does not make big air filters anymore.  They were too time consuming to make and found that while they did flow more, they also flowed alot of dirt in with the air, making for premature engine failure.  Use ONLY Delco 100 type straight 40 weight on your engine.  On a 4 stroke engine, the bearings "relax" between pulses where the oil can renew.  On a 2 stroke, there is no relaxing or change in pressure, so the oil has alot more to support.  A 15W-40 oil is a 15 weight oil with polymers that give it the lubrication quality of a 40 weight oil.  Those polymers are what compress down on a 2 stroke and not recover creating sub standard lubrication and increased engine wear.  Good Luck, TomC

[tekebird]

factoid.

in the day of the 4104 and 4106, Greyhound determined when to rebuild an engine when it had oil consumption of 5 gallons in 500 miles IIRC

[JackConrad]

Your engine dying at stops could be a low oil pressure shutdown. These engines carry very little oil pressure at idle and if you engine has 15-40 and is a little low, when the bus comes to a stop, oil pressure may drop and the low oil shutdown goes into action. I would change oil & filter filling with straight 40W Rotella or other CF2 rated oil. Install working oil pressure and water temp gauges. Low oil or hot engine will be almost instant death of your engine. You gotta know what's going on in the engine. Jack

[JohnEd]

If you can use auto antifreeze then don't drain yours yet.  Get some test strips and verify the ratio/freeze point and also if the SCA's are in proper concentration.  If you use a radiator flush MAKE SURE THAT YOU RINSE ALL THAT $h*t OUT.  Requires multi fillings and draining after good warm up to operating temp with rads covered.  Make sure the heater is on and make sure you drain that and the block with every rinse.  I use washing soda to flush the system and I run it for an hour before draining.  The final rinse will have water that does not have that "slipery feel" like the first rinse had.

Stick with the oil bath...none better.  Lots of the others are easier!

Are you "lugging" the engine?  Keep the r's up.

John

[Coops6]

Thanks again guys. It still sounds like fun! 
I have a manual for the bus and another for the 8v71.  It was in a bus shop in January and had the frontend gone through, new king pins, new brakes & one new radiator.  $5,600 in receipts!

Here is my summary of work from the list above.
1)  Get the oil changed with the right kind!
2)  Get some manual oil pressure and heat gauges so I know what is going on.
    Or get new sensors and try the old ones?  I would like to have them in the dash & working.  Where is a good source for them?
3)  New air filter / keep the oil bath.
4)  Check / replace fuel lines and filter.
Optional after above list is complete:  Flush coolant system and refill. 
If it is still smokin' check the injectors. 
What am I missing? 
BTW I also started working on the RV portion.  Someone had "converted" this bus already.  It was really sort of just a lot of RV stuff put in a bus, not really a conversion.  For instance, there was a closet in the back, just built around the old bus crapper, but she has a ton of new Flexsteel furnature.  javascript:void(0);So, last weekend I went after the bathroom with a cutting torch in one hand and my garden hose in the other.  You get really interesting smells when you put a torch to a tank that has had... well you know what in it for the last 30 years.  Good thing my neighbors like me!  Anyway I got the old bathroom out and sealed up.  I also got the inverter and generator going!  Plenty of work ahead, but I am celebrating the small steps right now!
Thanks again.  I look forward to the day when I might help someone out. javascript:void(0);