Doing the impossiblre

[captain ron]

The MOST IMPOSSIBLE thing with our bus hobby is being able to post something on this board without someone getting bent out of shape or a flame war breaking out.

[akmc5]

I've noticed quite a few here like to tell you what "can not be done".   The only way to improve something is to change it.   

Henry Ford was aressted the first time he drove his car on the street.   "They" told him he couldn't do that....I'm pretty sure you all drove your cars to work today.  Edison got it wrong over 200 times before his lightbulb worked like he wanted to.

If you do something different and fail then they call you an Idiot,  but if you don't fail then you're a genius and they pat you on the back.  Everything great that we use today was invented by some "crackpot", with no money, in some dirty old garage.

I'll tell ya what....You'll learn a whole lot more when you don't get it right than when ya do. 

[Busted Knuckle]

The MOST IMPOSSIBLE thing with our bus hobby is being able to post something on this board without someone getting bent out of shape or a flame war breaking out.

I'm already so far outta shape it'd be hard to bend me back into shape! LOL!
But yes Ron it is hard to make posts that don't agitate or aggravate as most people can't hear/see/feel the emotion on the other end of the post like you can in a face to face or phone conversation where you can get an idea of what the other party is saying by the tone or facial expressions. We should all try to lighten up and take a minute and reread others posts for clues as to whether it was meant humorously, harshly, corrective criticism, or just plain honest advice before responding. It might save some feelings and blood pressure medications! JMHO FWIW  BK  

PS; I hope by now just about everyone on these boards realizes I'm as big as smart a** as I am BIG! And never takes me to serious (unless it's about safety, as I'm always serious about that! In our business we are only one accident away from being outta business PERMANTLY!)

Everything great that we use today was invented by some "crackpot", with no money, in some dirty old garage.

I'll tell ya what....You'll learn a whole lot more when you don't get it right than when ya do. 

Hey that's me! I wonder when something I think of is gonna make me rich or famous! LOL

[tekebird]

yep I am full of BS and don't know what I am talking about.

Henrey ford was likely arrested for scaring horses not dfor operating a motor vehicle......a law that was on the books at the time.

in the late 80's Colorado still had a state law that required any business to provide your horse drinking water.

[Jerry Liebler]

AKMC5,
     As a creative engineer I've lived my adult life among those who said  'that won't work'.  I'm still fascinated with why that attitude is so prevalent, not just here but everywhere.  My house batteries had sat discharged for about a year, everyone in the battery industry said they are destroyed by 'hard sulphation'.  I happened on a website about pulse desulphation, built first one but eventually 6 or so of the little pulsers and put them to work.  I also built a 'capacity under load tester'.  When I started I measured  5 AH capacity on what were built as 370 AH batteries.  The pulsers work slowly but they do work.  After 4 months I was measuring capacity over 350 AH.  It's now 2 years later and I've just measured capacity over 400 AH, yes that's right better than new.  Yet still according to all the 'experts' sulfated batteries cannot be recovered.  It doesn't matter if it's recovering batteries or putting a window air conditioner in a bus if you ask if it can be done someone is sure to say it can't, even if you already have done it.  Why is that? I'm an engineer, not a psychologist, I have no clue why.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

[tekebird]

And Jerry Don't be so damn sensitive:

I never said your workman ship was crap.....and I don't have a problem with using Fiberglass for the application you did.

I don't think If you read my post, without having your panties in a wad over the whole can't do it thing, you would have seen that....although I did use your two examples in my post, soley because you threw them out there and they were fresh in my mind.

Truely....I could really give a crap what any one person does to thier property, be it good bad Ugly, nicelooking, or just plain ridiculous.

But I do offer my opinions and advice....none of which is based soley on my experiences


1100# tongue wt:  yes you can do it...yes you may have no issues ( in your lifetime with your useage)  HERE I AM USING YOUR AS A GENERALITY>>>>>>NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE  but that does not mean you are not doing damage.

If you took a non Aerobatic aircraft and do aerobatics....you may never have a failure.....maybe it is the 4th or 5th owner from you that has the failure.

here is a good example of what happens with fatigued Aluminum

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020726X01227&key=1

[cody]

My grandfather always said that the only thing that was impossible to do was to whistle underwater, I tryed most of the summer that year, I was 12, and tho I never managed to do it, I always thought that it could be done.  I feel that way about most things, I think this is one of the reasons I like this forum so much, so many people are convinced, with good reason, that something else just might work.

[Jerry Liebler]

Doug,
    Explanation accepted, thank you.  On the trailer tongue weight issue, I actually spent a good bit of time doing a real structural analysis of my GM bus.  What I found as the weakest point was the attachment, by rivets, of the engine rear hangers to the roof.  Each of these joints have a static load capacity of just over 20,000 pounds.  I seriously doubt that a 40,000 pound capacity structure that's carrying about 2000 pounds of engine transmission and such will be subject to any damage from another 1100 pounds even at 2 g loading it's still a safety factor of over 5.  I'm very impressed with the GM design. it's elegant and incredibly strong.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

[DrivingMissLazy]

My grandpappy told me that it was impossible to stretch a gnat's a$$ over a wash tub. LOL
Richard

My grandfather always said that the only thing that was impossible to do was to whistle underwater, I tryed most of the summer that year, I was 12, and tho I never managed to do it, I always thought that it could be done.  I feel that way about most things, I think this is one of the reasons I like this forum so much, so many people are convinced, with good reason, that something else just might work.

[FloridaCliff]

Well,

I have done a couple things;

Raised the roof on my 4905 10".

Redesigned the factory exhaust, to a new location.

I hear a lot about all the engineering and design work that was done on these buses that we own and how could we possibly think we could individually make a better decision than the no doubt highly qualified engineering teams of GM, MCI, Prevost, Eagle, et all.

Well, they were designing a bus, not a motorhome in a bus chassis.  I think they would have incorporated many of the changes developed and improved by many of our contributers.  They were also dealing with the ideas and technology at the time of production.  Also the budget constraints of the management team.

Not the unlimited funds that ALL busnuts possess!   

Just because someone alters something, doesn't mean its made less structurally. God forbid, we may have accidentally made it better.

I think a lot of detractors live in the "thats the way we always did it world and that the way it should be"   

I do agree that EVERYONE should know there limitations, and be honest with yourself.  Many times it is cheaper to let someone who is a professional do it right the first time.

Great thread Jerry

Cliff

[Jerry Liebler]

Cliff,
    I would like to copy your exhaust system-mufflers etc.  Your changes address a serious safety issue that our aging buses are developing.  I'd rather not repair the fire damage that you and others have had due to muffler failure.  I'd also like to not make the errors of the trial and error process I know you went through.
This modification of the GM Buffalo series deserves a magazine article.
Regads
Jerry 4107 1120

[Chaz]

Cliff,
  Your da man! Very well said!
  You too AKMC5!!!
  Being somewhat of a creative person myself, I LOVE it when people are willing to try some thing new!!! And yes, sometimes there is failure. More often than we like, but that's all part of it. You have to have failures to also have success. It makes the success sweet as opposed to a mundane part of life.
  This is a cool thread, Jerry. Altho I haven't really come up with any new earth shaking modifications, I'm trying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (I'm trying the downward vent tubes now and can't wait to try the air dam!!)
   
  BK is right about not being able to tell what a persons intention is on the printed page, ESPECIALLY when they don't even give you a clue.
  I seen a saying once that said: "If can't help them, at least don't hinder them." I like responses from you guys that are, shall we say, "against" what I'm doing if it is good sound advice from past knowledge. It helps me not make that mistake, saving my time and money,  and/or try something in a different manner. Learning from someone else's mistakes is the BEST!!! way to learn. And with heart felt thanks, I thank those in the past that made them so I wouldn't have to.
  I'm looking forward to more posts on this thread!!! Mainly for the inspiration to try something else....... or God forbid........ something "new"!!!!!!        

  Break out the sawzall's, bailing wire and bubble gum. I'm feelin creative,

     Chaz

    p.s. and if ya really want to get contraversial, let's talk WVO!!!!!!!    YES!!!!!!   

[Jerry Liebler]

Cliff,
     Now that you have that huge volume of space where the muffler once was have you thought of how to use it.  Maybe put a water heater down there with access through a trap door in the floor.  It's probably big enough that it'd hold a generator, but for access issues.  With only 35 feet of bus I keep looking for places to tuck thing into.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

[FloridaCliff]

Jerry,

Hadn't thought much about using that space.

You do need to keep it open to get to the pipes though.  Don't eat dinner before trying to get in there!

How about running a loop (hot water) around the exhaust from a storage tank using a recirculating pump.

Reclaim some of that waste heat.  The trough in the bay ends right before it?

Cliff

[Len Silva]

Nothing is impossible in a bus conversion EXCEPT:

• Knowing whether or not to use anti seize on lug nuts
• Being absolutely sure you are descending a grade properly
• Knowing what type of toilet is best

Len