Changing to aluminum wheels on an RTS... what's involved?

[Kevin Warnock]

Hello,

So, I am getting my RTS painted. I thought it would be a good time to replace my rusty old steel wheels with new aluminum wheels. I asked the guy at the paint place, and he advised against it. He said it will be quite costly, and not worth it. He said that because the aluminum wheels are so much thicker, I will need new studs. I have 'hub' style wheels. He said the studs cost about $4 each, but it takes 3 to 4 hours per wheel of hard work to install them. He said sometimes they are stuck, and require lots of pounding with a huge sledge hammer to get loose. If I pay someone to do this, which I think I would, as I don't know anything about changing bus tires, this project might cost something like this:

4 wheels @ $375 ea. = $1,500
40 studs @ $4 ea. = $160
labor to replace studs 16 @ $75/hr. = $1,200
dismount tires and remount and balance them on new rims - I don't know, but at least $100/wheel = $400

This would come to $3,260, which is a lot of money for me. Was he trying to scare me? He is painting my steel wheels at no extra charge, so I probably can live with them for a long while. But I really was hoping for Alcoas like my old bus. Sadly, I don't think I can just swap them, as that bus uses 11R/22.5 tires, and the Alcoa salesman says my RTS takes special transit wheels. The paint guys said that's not true, so I don't know what to believe.

Also, the price for machined Alcoas is $285 each, while the polished Alcoas are $375 each. Are the polished that much nicer? I need 8.25 x 22.5 wheels, according to the VIN number plate on my RTS, and the bus uses 12R/22.5 tires.

Thanks!

Kevin

[prevost82]

Kevin ... if you run steel rims on the inside duals and aluim wheels on the outside, you can buy longer outer bolts. Then you only have to replace the front bolts.

sorry did see the "hub" style ... for the year of your coach I assume they were stud pilot.

[NJT 5573]

Kevin, I don't know if there is a transit wheel ID difference. My tire guy said no, all hub pilots have the same size hole. He had about 6 used wheels I could choose from for $100 each. None of his wheels had the same size trim holes as my bus wheels so I am still looking for an exact match. Most steer axels have long enough studs for aluminum wheels. The drive axel studs are not that hard to change. I can pound one out and a new one in before a tire man can patch a tire. I would give some thought to changing to 24.5 tires and wheels if it turns out hub pilot wheels are all the same ID. If you buy new wheels you can get them polished for a lot less than $100 each. You listed 4 wheels, are you hoping to run a steel on the inside driver position? Its commonly done with stud pilot so it should be ok with hub pilot, (but I have never done either one). If so your studs may be long enough for 1 steel and one aluminum without being changed out. A flat repair is $25, so I can't see a wheel switch, demount , mount, costing anymore than that. So if you are lucky and have enough thread.....

4 used wheels @ $100--$400
4 wheel switches @ $25--$100
total cost--$500

[Gary '79 5C]

A quick FWIW, I have been told that the Alcoa's carry the weight better than the steels, as the steels will crack as opposed to the Alcoa's ability to flex. There fore a better ride as well. The steels are supposed to be heavier as well.
I do not know this analytically, however three former truckers have the same advise.
All I know is that they do look better,  however you be the judge as for that being a return on your money spent.
My bus came with 24.5 Alcoa's, PO felt tire availability was better, as well as ride.

Have a great day and fun with your decision and outcome.

Gary

[Jerry32]

I'd like to find some aluminium wheels for a 100 bucks each. Jerry

[TomC]

If your mechanic is talking about pounding out the studs with a sledge hammer-it is time to find another mechanic that has proper equipment.  When changing the wheel studs, the entire wheel hub should be removed with the studs being pressed out by a hydraulic press.  It might take as much as an hour per wheel.  If you have 6 threads showing with the steel wheels on, you can just use the studs now-that applies to the front and if you're going to use steel inner with aluminum outer on the rear, which I would not suggest since the two dissimilar metals will be fighting each other.  I think you maybe able to just change the rear studs and the front maybe long enough.  I changed out mine immediately from 12R-22.5 to 11R-24.5 16 ply since the 12R's are much harder to find on the road than a 11R.  And the aluminum wheels, being lighter with less unsprung weight, will ride better and aluminum dissipates heat better than steel.  Good Luck, TomC

[NJT 5573]

Tom, presses are wonderful things. Why would you care if the old studs were hammered out? What are you going to do with them? What difference does it make to the stud how its seated if its not stretched? Where are you getting this information? Can you share your source with us or did you make that up?

[TomC]

Course, this is in reference to aluminum hubs mostly used on trucks, but pounding on the hubs can crack them.  I have only seen them pressed in and I know it doesn't take much time or effort to do.  Also the mechanic is not tired or risking injury to them selves by a missed placed sledge blow.  Good Luck, TomC

[NJT 5573]

Tom. When you install a wrist pin in a press fit aluminum piston, you put the wrist pin in the freezer. A stud will almost fall in a hub using the same procedure.

[TomC]

I'm talking about pressing out the old, stubborn, rusted in studs that are to be replaced.  Freezing the new ones would be a good idea for ease of installation.  Good Luck, TomC

[jjrbus]

Gotta agree, get a new mechanic. If you are going to pay somebody by the hour to do something at least pay somebody with the right tools!  It would cost you about 1 hour labor in a decent shop @ $85 to replace studs.
  I'm not 100% sure but I do not think you can get studs for $4, me thinks more like $10. better call and check that one.
Talk to another wheel guy, I've never heard of special transit wheels. .
  Remount and spin balance should be about $45 a tire. If you check around you should be able to find commercial tire place that can spin balance tires on bus.
And finally
                           http://www.chromewheel.com/refurb2.htm
     

[NJT 5573]

OK JJ. My studs are fair but if I can have 20 new ones installed at your shop in one hour, I'm on my way. Give me a name and phone number of this shop. I bought Euclid studs at Peterbilt last week (E5987L&R) $2.93 each so $58.60 for 20 studs and $85 to jack it up, pull 2 sets of duals, pull the drums, pull the hubs and press out the studs and reverse the procedure seems like a great price to me. Will you guarantee that price with your money? Are you going to reuse the wheel seals? Come on, you don't even have any aluminum hubs. I certainly agree that if you don't have the right tools for a job you are headed for trouble. If you have not changed alot of studs and are unsure of your self then go the shop road and take your money. Kevins mechanic quoted his stud job at 3 to 4 hours per hub. Thats $500 to $700 at his shop for both sides, labor only, (see orig post). Not $85, not even close. If I went to a shop and paid someone to do a job like this for me, I would expect to see them pull the hub, clean and inspect the bearings and races, replace the wheel seals and use a press on the studs. I'd expect to get hit up for a brake job, (its already apart), including turning the drums and replacing the Maxi cans. The nice thing about doing your own work is you can do it your own way, live with the results and have some fuel money left over. I am not for hire as a mechanic. I am on emergency call for free help on the breakdown site for my fellow busers that go down in the neighborhood. So be forewarned, If I show up, I love my big hammers.

[JackConrad]

NJT 5573,
   I think JJR was referring to having someone press the studs AFTER you remove the hubs and take to his shop. Most busnuts have the tools to remove the hubs, but few have a press.  Depends on whether you want the studs pressed or beat with a hammer. Jack

[Stan]

NJT5573: We all appreciate your willingness to go out and help felllow bus nuts, but be careful with the big hammer on GM4501 buses (maybe others) that have aluminum hubs.

[RTS/Daytona]

Perhaps this could be an alternative / cheaper solution  --   Stainless Steel

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/22-5-wheel-simulators-liners-truck-rv_W0QQitemZ160114113119QQcmdZViewItem

Pete RTS/Daytona