Notes From 6400 Mile Trip in 4104

[gus]

Here is the last part of my trip report; however, I may have some good news concerning the "No overnight parking at WalMart" in Missoula, MT in a day or two.

                                                     Highway Stuff

There is a relatively new bypass at I44 exit 69 around the south side of Springfield, MO that connects to US60 without going through the traffic mess on US65 east of Springfield. Watch out for the RR crossing at the bottom of a long hill almost at the end of the bypass just before it connects to US 65. Pay attention to the signs warning of the possibility of a sudden stop.
               
                     
                     Bus Stuff

We saw one 4104 and one 4106 on the whole trip. Saw a few MCIs, mostly MC8-9.

There was a lot of interest at most of our stops and I got a lot of questions. At one rest stop in WY some older gents from a bus load of Spanish tourists took a great interest in the bus so, naturally, I invited them in for a tour and they were very surprised to see that it was a motorhome inside, they thought it was a passenger bus.

At the National Park Campground at Cedar Pass, SD inside the  Badlands National Park, one fellow camper who is full timing in a large  fifth wheel trailer with a nice two ton tow truck said he was selling his rig and getting a bus conversion. He was not happy with the trailer and said that his father-in-law originally had told him to get a bus conversion. I gave him this and another bus forum address as the best sources of information.

[gus]

Update on Missoula, MT and WalMart parking. I received four emails from Missoula City Council members, all positive except one. I also received one from the Mayor of Billings and two from Sgt. Richardson of the Missoula Police Dept.

Below is the second one from Sgt. Richardson which I received today;

"Subject Camping in the City of Missoula

Mr. Causbie,

   I just spoke with the city attorney and he confirmed that the ordinance is not intended to address private parking lots. He also said he has spoke with folks from Walmart and conveyed to them they did not have any concerns (from the ordinance stand point) with allowing folks to park their campers and spend the night. I am not sure why they have placed the signs there, maybe a call to them from a concerned RV'er might shed some light on the subject. Thanks, Casey"

This pretty much clarifies the issue to me; that overnight arking at WalMart in Missoula is legal. The email from the Billings Mayor also says parking for ten hours has always been allowed so Billings is no longer an issue either the way I see it.

I'll be glad to post any of the emails including my original if anyone is interested.

[pvcces]

Thanks for the good work, Gus. I didn't think that those buggers would pay any attention to that sort of thing. I believe that I'll make more of an effort in the future when one of these situations crops up.

I'm currently stuck in Terrace, BC, where the flodding has cut surface transportation out for the time being. I happened to notice that the local Walmart has a sign saying that nobody can inhabit an RV overnight unless the RV is in an approved campground.

I might just do some checking up on that.

For what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey

Update on Missoula, MT and WalMart parking. I received four emails from Missoula City Council members, all positive except one. I also received one from the Mayor of Billings and two from Sgt. Richardson of the Missoula Police Dept.

Below is the second one from Sgt. Richardson which I received today;

"Subject Camping in the City of Missoula

Mr. Causbie,

   I just spoke with the city attorney and he confirmed that the ordinance is not intended to address private parking lots. He also said he has spoke with folks from Walmart and conveyed to them they did not have any concerns (from the ordinance stand point) with allowing folks to park their campers and spend the night. I am not sure why they have placed the signs there, maybe a call to them from a concerned RV'er might shed some light on the subject. Thanks, Casey"

This pretty much clarifies the issue to me; that overnight arking at WalMart in Missoula is legal. The email from the Billings Mayor also says parking for ten hours has always been allowed so Billings is no longer an issue either the way I see it.

I'll be glad to post any of the emails including my original if anyone is interested.

[gus]

Tom,

Good luck in BC, I hope you have the same good luck I had in Missoula. It turned out that there never was a prohibition against parking in private lots in Missoula in the first place but that the signe at walMart made it appear that way!

I received another very friendly email today from Sgt. Richardson with more good news. It appears that the City Council appointed the Police Dept. the job of dealing with this situation. If so, they picked the right guy.

"Gus,

Glad to share the info. Please pass this on to your fellow RV'rs. In digging a little further, there were some issues brought up a few years ago by a couple of the local rv parks after there was an article in the local paper about folks like yourself who enjoy traveling and frequently stay at Walmart lots because of the convenience of having a grocery/shopping center at your door step and the fact that Walmart is free to stay at and super friendly. I am guessing that Walmart may have gotten some pressure and in order to appease that pressure is was easiest to just throw up some signs.

In digging into the ordinance, there is an actual stipulation that allows on street camping for extended time if there is a sporting event, dog show, horse show, or something of that nature. I agree with you wholeheartedly that spending the night in an RV to catch up on some
rest is NOT camping. Thanks again for your openess and sharing your thoughts.

Happy travels, Casey"

So it appears that the signs could actually have been initiated by WalMart but that they put the blame on the city by quoting the ordinance instead of prohibiting parking, which would have been poor public relations. Or, the whole thing may have been an innocent misunderstanding on WM's part. What is important is that we can now park on private lots in Missoula or Billings with no worry about police action!!

[skipn]

Gus
    "innocent misunderstanding on WM's part"  in Billings it would also be the rest of the citizens.
   We are making plans to pick up my parents in Billings (where they live) and go to Texas.
    I suggested parking at WM and drive by to pick them up very early in the morning because
    they have no room for the bus..... Dad said oh no they passed an ordanance so you can't
    park overnight at WM.

    I realize I am rather jaded but...... politicians speak with forked tongue.
    Thanks for the info  Another little tid bit that most of you know KOA corparate headquarters is in Billings.
    There is more to the story but it is probably been through my parents perception.

   Skip

[niles500]

"Another little tid bit that most of you know KOA corparate headquarters is in Billings."

No conflict of interest there ... LOL

[gus]

skipn,

Here is a direct copy of the Billings mayor's email to me;

Subject: RE: Missoula, MT, The RV Unfriendly City
From: tussingr@ci.billings.mt.us
Date: 6/4/2007 9:02 AM
To: egus.c@pokynet.com

"Billings allows RV use for up to ten hours with the permission of the landowner."

I tried to fwd the email to you but your address isn't in your profile. Drop me an email and I'll forward his email to you in case you have any problems parking at WM.

[gus]

Anyone else going to Missoula or Billings who wants copies of emails from those cities can just drop me an email and I'll send whatever you want.

I don't think Missoula is going to be a problem but not so sure about Billings so a copy of the Billings Mayor's email might come in handy.