Beginner Help and CDL License

[superpickle]

I think you should tell the neighbors to Lump It, unless the bus is a Hugh pile of Rusty junk, I dont think they should be complaining..
You CDL is not all that difficult to get, I did mine in California and it was not all that bad.. I barrowed a Truck from a friend and took it to the DMV, they asked me some Q's about the Operation of the truck and Air brakes and Dailey inspection..   Huh. He gave me a Book, I took it home and studdied it for a week, barrowed the Truck again and took the test.. Bingo, passed the test.. No $3000.00 cours and i was On the road.. get 6 marks on the test though, that was the Limit  .. hehehehe..
Hints,

DONT have your Right hand on the Shifter and use the left to SCRATCH.  

Get used to the Clutch, I stalled it once when i wasnt supposed to..

Check your Rear clearence. The truck i used had a Hydraulic Hoist on the rear, it stuck out passed the bed. I got docked on the Loading Dock backup thingy..    I lined up ok with the corner of the bed, but the Hoist stuck out 2 feet.. Oooops..  

If the Tester is Feamale, DONT HIT ON HER !!!!!   very bad...  

Paul....

[TheWellMinistries]

I think you should tell the neighbors to Lump It, unless the bus is a Hugh pile of Rusty junk, I dont think they should be complaining..

You wouldn't believe the complaints we got and the number of times policemen were here to tell me that we were breaking the city ordinance code by having the bus parked here. You would have to read our "bus blog" (www.thewellministries.org/bus/) to get the whole story. But our mayor is behind us and gave us permission and and grace to park it here. So we tell all the neighbors and policemen to go see the mayor if they have any problems. 

Kris Rhoades
The Well Ministries
www.thewellministries.org

[DrivingMissLazy]

The 26,000 pound requirement is when you are operating a commercial licensed vehicle over this weight, you then must have a CDL.

If your vehicle is licensed as a motorhome/RV then you do not have to be concerned about commercial license or CDL or the weight.

If you are using the vehicle for commercial purposes, then it would need to be re-registered as a commercial vehicle instead of a motor home, and you would have to have a CDL if it weighs more than 25,999 pounds.
Richard

[Ednj]

Motorhomes are exempt from commercial license regulations, so the gross weight requirement on a CDL of 26,000lbs does not apply in most states and could be argued in the rest.

I can't find any resource to back up this statement. I researced PennDOT's website yesterday and could not find any reference to motorhomes being exempt. Can you prove this? Because if this is truly the case then I have nothing to worry about.

Kris Rhoades
The Well Ministries
www.thewellministries.org

>
Kris,
Look here, section 1, introduction under "Exemptions"
http://www.dot10.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pub_223/section_1.pdf
>
Also with the Omnibus plate I mentioned before you don't need a CDL because it's a private coach.

[DavidInWilmNC]

Motorhomes are exempt from commercial license regulations, so the gross weight requirement on a CDL of 26,000lbs does not apply in most states and could be argued in the rest.

I can't find any resource to back up this statement. I researced PennDOT's website yesterday and could not find any reference to motorhomes being exempt. Can you prove this? Because if this is truly the case then I have nothing to worry about.

Kris Rhoades
The Well Ministries
www.thewellministries.org

Kris,
I know that laws vary from state to state... but in NC, my bus is titled and registered as a House Car.  This is the exact same designation as a motorhome.  You might have to meet certain criteria for it to be considered a House Car.  I had to have restroom facilities (porta potty), cooking equipment (hot plate and microwave), HVAC for use when stationary (I had a roof mount RV A/C already installed) and a few more.  A CDL is not required to drive a House Car (motorhome) here.  I know some businesses own RV's and use them for 'retreats', etc and don't have CDL's.  I don't see that as really any different from your use.

David

[DrivingMissLazy]

The people that owned the bus before us said that because the title had been converted to a motorhome and has a motorhome plate we did not need a CDL license

It is no longer a bus. It is a motorhome. There is no requirement in any state for the operator of this vehicle to have a CDL as long as it remains registered as a motorhome and is not used for commercial purposes.
Richard

[brojcol]

Kris,
First of all, welcome. 

Second of all...This was a question in my home state of Mississippi when I owned my GMC and used it for a gospel quartet to travel in (as well as my family).

Everyone had an opinion about air brakes, CDL, weight etc.  I even called the DOT and got three different answers and started a fist fight among their employees on the phone. 

Bottom line, just get the CDL.  You won't regret it.

[NJT 5573]

Kris, You do not want a CDL unless you need it to make a living. If you have a CDL and I'm a Cop, first I want to see your Log Book. Next I want to see your Annual Inspection. Got Tonnage and License? Proof that you passed your pre employment Drug Test and proof that you are in a recognized Random Drug Testing Pool records must be maintained at your Home Office. Hours of Service Records, Maintence Records, Insurance Records, Accident Records, Driver Records (in detail). You must have about 10 things in the file for everyone that touches the steering wheel. Application for Employment, DOT physical, Drug Test, proof that you contacted each previous employer and notes about what they said, Annual Copy of Drivers Record and on and on. Now you know you can't run a not for hire license plate so you will need to register with IRP for your license plate if you cross state lines. You also will have to report exact milage and dates that you drove in each state you entered because Prorate Plates distribute the portion of license fees to each state you travel in acordingly. I used to be able to have a couple beers, (and I do only mean a couple), the Law now states if I blow over .04 I get a full bore DWI. Now I don't drink ANY beer thanks to my CDL. When I drive my Eagle if I get stopped by a Cop I will insist if I get a ticket it goes on my private record and not my CDL. If you have a CDL and take a ticket on it you can expect a visit from the local office of the U.S. Department of Transportation and this will start you on your way to a Safety Rating. If you have all the above as well as about 20 other pieces of paper in your files that I have left out to make this easier, you could recieve a Satisfactory Safety Rating provided your bus passes an intense  inspection on the spot. Now for the fun part...... IF, you don't have all your ducks in a row......Get ready for some commercial size fines. Skyrockets only go half as high as your insurance is going to go

[bobofthenorth]

Methinks that all the P & M'ing about the reasons not to get a CDL is just so much sour grapes from people who haven't bothered to do so but suspect that maybe they should have.  An OTR trucker driving his car home from the terminal doesn't get treated any differently than any other civilian driver.  Neither will the driver of a bus conversion who happens to hold a CDL.  What the CDL will do for that driver is force him to understand how his air systems operate and expose him to the standards that commercial operators live by.  Some of those standards may even influence his preventative maintenance program.  And that, IMHO, is a good thing.  YMMV

[RJ]

Kris -

Welcome to the world of busnuts!! 

Since you were so excited about Jack's info on where to find the VIN on the coach, can you share with us what you found?

PD4905-XXXX or P8M4905A-XXXX?

Also, if you drop Doug Wotrig a note (tekebird at yahoo dot com), he might still have some 4905 Shop Manuals available.

Another bit of info:  One of the best shops on the eastern seaboard for GMCs is Luke and the gang at US Coach, located in Berlin, NJ.  Add his phone number to your list of sources for parts and service: 1-888-262-2434.  Luke's a strong supporter of the busnut community, support those who support us.  Fair prices and same day parts shipping when using plastic money. . .

Finally, no busnut should leave home without one:  A copy of the "Bus Garage Index", published by the folk at BusRide magazine, an industry trade mag. (www.busride.com).  May be the best $40 you'll ever spend on the coach - you can order a copy from a link on the LH side of the main page of their website.

As for the CDL issue, I'm in CA, so this doesn't necessarily apply to PA.  But here, churches who operate buses (14 passengers + driver or more) MUST have commercial plates and be driven by an operator holding a valid CDL.  IIRC, insurance for this situation is based on exposure:  the more miles you run/year, the greater the premium.  45 minutes from me, in Visalia, there's a ministry group called "The Celebrant Singers"  (http://www.celebrants.com/index.html) that run several coaches, and all of their equipment is commercially licensed, as are their drivers.  Might want to send them a note to see how they handle the situation.  (Their coaches are all regular seated units.)

The grey area, as you've found, is the bus that's been converted from a regular seated coach into a private recreational vehicle/motorhome/housecar/etc., and licensed as such.  When this "private" vehicle is now utilized by a ministry to travel from site to site spreading the word, the question becomes whether or not it is a commercial venture.  Very sticky point.

What you're re-modeling your coach into could easily be called an "entertainer coach" - one that is set up for touring musicians.  I don't know how folk like the late Johnny Cash, who actually owned his own coach, had it set up license/registration/insurance-wise.  Many entertainers nowadays simply lease their coach and driver from one of the myriad companies that specialize in that sort of thing.  These are all CDL-operated units, and licensed commercially.

I strongly suggest that you contact all the other ministries that you're aware of that may operate a coach as their means of transportation, and see what has worked for them.

Interesting Pandora's Box, isn't it. . .

FWIW & HTH,

[NJT 5573]

Bob, Thanks for your thoughts. Things may be a little different in the "States". I have driven commercially (CDL A) since 1969 and owned and still own my own trucking business. My home office is in Jax Fl. but the majority of my business is from the Seattle area to Alaska at this time. Everything I have stated above in both posts is how it works in the USA. I don't get to make the rules, but if I don't play by them I won't remain in business very long. A lot of people are driving commercial equiptment that don't have a clue about driver skills or safety procedures. A CDL entry level education in operating heavy equiptment is not enough in my opinion, but this knowledge is something everyone should acquire weather or not they want to be a CDL (for hire) driver. The "C" stands for commercial. I lean toward this group being commercial at this point and feel they should just hire professionals and ride in new coaches. Just concentrate on the music and leave the transportation to the pros.