Why is it? OT

[tekebird]

Why is it that there are people who ask questions, "wanting answers" but when they get them from good sources don't listen.

I'm smarter than you and everyone else but let me ask you this question and I won't listen or accept your answer, because I am smarter and am going to do it my way because I am smarter and it will work....

DON"T ASK Just Do then..

Damn.

[Lee Bradley]

Don't know. Just human nature I guess.

Same thing different place. I finish a 30 minute race and a driver, I lapped twice, asks about car setup and then wants to argue with what I tell them. Go figure.

[HighTechRedneck]

I think Lee hit it on the head.  Just human nature.  Probably always will be.

Same thing another place.  I fix a clients computer or network problems and explain how their problem happened, often as a result of unwise changes they made or unsafe practices.  Then they proceed to tell me that wasn't possible or that their way was a better way and ought to be the way they are made to be.  Doesn't change the fact that their way/usage broke it, but they will argue it anyway.

[buddydawg]

I think they come with an idea they think is right and want someone to affirm what they think.  When you offer another suggestion or find their idea flawed they take offense as if it were a personal attack.  People don't like to be wrong.

I use a different approach.  I have always been able to build, repair and modify most things once I knew how to approch the project.  That's why internet groups and message boards are so valuable.  I would never be able to achieve the knowledge available here on my own, or I would spend a lifetime to aquire it.

[TomC]

That goes right along with many on this board questioning engineering that was done on the buses many times by large engineering teams with General Motors.  Granted they may not be up to date compared to what we have now, but the engines in the buses are still very reliable, usable engines.
Also, with some trying to recreate the wheel.  They ask questions about systems that would take a monster amount of engineering and experimenting with to make work, when it is a simple matter to look at what has worked industry wide for years and use those systems.
No matter what you tell someone about whether it will work or not, they will probably take their own road and learn the hard and expensive way.

Few things I have learned from my conversion experience.  First off buy the bus you want-the right size and configuration.  Also buy it with the engine and transmission you want (although I turbo'd mine for better high altitude use, and of course a bit more power).  Use exsisting equipment widely available through nation wide outlets.  Nothing worse than to break down on the road only to discover the part you need is obsolete and then you have to heavily modify the bus to get it to work again.  But- no matter what, everyone is going to do it their way-but that's why we spend the thousands of hours on our conversions.  Good Luck, TomC

[kyle4501]

I've noticed a double standard - Engineers are idiots, all they know is paper, Then they recite some paper they found or some computer program results.

I believe it comes from immaturity & insecurity

Kinda sad that they can't be happy with who they are.

I enjoy reading their BS. It helps me to spot it sooner the next time it gets posted.

I'm hesitant to call BS, you know the benefit of doubt thing, but when it seems to be getting out of hand, someone needs to challenge the BS & get it sorted out.

[TomC]

This is where I get into constant arguments with the engineers at Freightliner.  They are degreed engineers trying to tell me what will work and what won't when they haven't even taken the trucks out and driven them themselves!  But that is usually the case with any industry.  But, because of this, the engineers make for a very conservatively rated truck where we don't see frame problems much, compared to smaller truck manufacturers (like Peterbilt and Kenworth).  Freightliner also owns Western Star-if you want to see massively engineered trucks, Western Star is it!  Good Luck, TomC

[WorkingOnWise]

I gotta chime in here!

kyle4501, I had to go back and read my posts to find what you read. I see where you think you saw it, but  it isn't there.

Engineers are people who hold degrees in engineering (although, there are exceptions- Smokey Yunich was an engineer in practice, just not on paper).

Engineers are not idiots, in general.
The idiot engineers are the ones who, as TomC said, "tell me what will work and what won't when they haven't even taken the trucks out and driven them themselves!"

The non-idiot ones will drive the truck, watch the part being made, attempt to flow that much current thru a circuit, and evaluate the results, THEN decide what can or cant be done!

Did they teach reading comprehension in your school kyle? You only seem to read half of what I say, then fill in the rest. And the half you do read isn't understood properly, because you miss the other half perhaps.

[skipn]

Kyle,

    Well at least you didn't get "Ok, now we're talkin prozac!" next to your name. I thought a good discussion on moments of mass, 3d torque/stress ana,
  harmonics even maybe a little metallurgy would be very educational but it was not to be. The current trend from Engineering collages is the BS level
teaches what formulas to use where. It is at the masters and doctorate level one really delvs into the derivations of the commonly used formulas and the assumptions associated. So yes I can see why people can get frustrated (real world versus formula theory)

  skip (talkin prozac again)

[Hartley]

Engineers are people who hold degrees in engineering (although, there are exceptions- Smokey Yunich was an engineer in practice, just not on paper).

Did they teach reading comprehension in your school kyle? You only seem to read half of what I say, then fill in the rest. And the half you do read isn't understood properly, because you miss the other half perhaps.

Ok, That qualified as an attack.... However, Truth be told " You even spelled Smokey's last name wrong "
I knew him once in my life.

I work for a company owned and operated by a degee'd engineer... Can't figure out how to put toilet paper on the roller !

Just because you look good on paper is not excuse for being one who wastes others time imagining the impossible
and stateing that you already know more than anyone else. WHO by the way have already done 500 times more stuff
with their buses and lifetimes than you have.

You haven't done anything more than show your arrogance and ignorance so far... So now AMAZE us by actually
driving a REAL BUS.... Not a sickly excuse for one....... Appreciation for true Bus design comes from many hours behind the wheel
and getting real-time experience. You sir are just playing and not serious at all it seems....

You have already given yourself the unwritten handle of " WiseAcre", I am surprised that anyone will even respond to your
neverending load of CARP.....

[Len Silva]

Wasn't there another thread sometime back from a guy who was going to strip his transit down to the "frame" and do all kinds of magic things to it. He probably never drove a bus either.

The main point is that if you take a $100.00 fishbowl and put in a T-drive and a Series 60 with a 740 trans and stretched it to 40' and marble floors, gold faucets etc., etc.  you might have a $500.00 fishbowl. (And it would still be ugly).

Len

[kyle4501]

Did they teach reading comprehension in your school kyle? You only seem to read half of what I say, then fill in the rest. And the half you do read isn't understood properly, because you miss the other half perhaps.

I was speaking about certain board posters in general & did not single you out in my above post, or did I fail to comprehend what I wrote? If you had spent any time at all here reading the archives, you would have known that post applies to many, many posters.

It seems to me that if one thinks they are the topic of all conversations, then they have a problem with arrogance & are full of themselves.

As for my comprehension of your posts, well, I must admit to having quite a bit of difficulty in following your thought process. Hell, I can't keep up. You are all over the place & change tactics faster than some change gears. I find it hard to believe you have put much forethought into this conversion process. (Whenever someone defends their position by dissing another, it sends up caution flags concerning their true merits)

I will be suspicious of anyone until they show their merit. You have got to admit that you came in here like gang busters with guns blazing. Again, if you had done your homework & read the archives you would have already had the answers to questions you didn't yet know existed.  .  . Oh but wait, do you think you are above that?

It was my understanding from all of your posting that you have spent considerable time planning your conversion. It seems rather odd that you haven't researched this a little better before so much planning.



My apologies if I'm wrong, but I'm not the only one reading your inconsistent posting & thinking something isn't right.


I really do wish you the best of luck in your conversion process.

But what do I know, I'm just a idiot that can't read or comprehend anything.

I wonder if I even have a bus! It may just be my imagination. Yeah, that must be it.


PS
I can handle attacks, it shows others what we are dealing with.

The hit dog .  .  .

[WorkingOnWise]

DrDave said "" You even spelled Smokey's last name wrong"
OOps, I did

" I knew him once in my life." You are lucky then. I would have liked to know him too.
I seem to remember lots and lots of talk about how arrogant and cocky he was. And how wrong he was. And how his ideas were foolish, reckless, and criminal. And how they were all tried before, didn't work, and not worth wasting any more time on. The reverse cooled LT1 350 in the vettes come to mind.
I don't fancy myself to be comparable to him.
I didn't say that.
I don't think it.
Just because it has been tried before doesn't mean the everything is known about and is no longer worth looking at again.
I started asking questions, and giving explanation for my questions/ideas. I do not take well to "the reality of what you want to do has obviously not set in yet" and the like. That is a totally useless answer. In effect, it is a non-answer. And when one says that, I expect a reason. How do you know the reality? Have you been there? Have you worked on a project that failed, similar to mine? None of that was offered by some posters.

There have been many here who, regardless of the view on my ideas, have been helpful. Some of you have not been, even before I got cranky.

Yes, when I get an idea, I run with it. And I am a bit gruff. My wife just loves me. Thinks I'n the best thing ever. Most others worder if she's been to the doctor lately! 

I didn't try to come in here with guns blazing. I came asking questions.

Yes I am arrogent.
In some areas, I am ignorant. I thought that is why questions got asked. To find information, convert it to knowledge, and remove ignorance.

On driving a REAL BUS. I have driven a few, enough to know that I do not like the highway buses at all, and I don't think the skoolies are built enough for what we want, and that I like the way the fishbowls drive, ride and look so much so that I will stay in the game, with my fishy, against all protests. The reason for my questions here is to help decide the form that it will take. If you don't the fishbowls, fine. Don't drive one.

skipn, I meant that in a good way, the prozac thing   

Len, good thing for us we don't want anything out of the coach for resale. If it is alive in 40 years, the grandkids can have it.

As for the value, non of you have a clue! My coach is worth $1500 now, in scrap metal! Len, yours is heavier, it's gotta be worth at least $2500!

See, all our buses are appreciating!

[kyle4501]

Really, $1500 in scrap?

I can't get that good of a deal around here.

They want you to seperate the aluminium from the steel & have it in small enough pieces to handle by hand. Oh & you have to deliver it to them too. (There is a bunch of steel in a GM bus. It is hiding under the alum skin.)

After I back out something modest for my time, materials & consumables to reduce it I'm in the hole.

[WorkingOnWise]

lol...yeah $1500, after I remove the fuel tank. Drop the tank, rig up a 5 gallon can for fuel to drive it to the scrap yard, and trade it for $1500.

A guy 2 years ago gave me a 1959 GMC oldlook. It started after several attempts and way too many shots of either, then belched blue smoke like it was running on engine oil. I topped off the fluids and drove it to the scrap. In a 55 mile trip, it consumed 4 qts of oil between leak and burn. Rusty all over, and I think I could see the rear window frame twist! It was bad.
The scrap yard said it had too much rust to get full value, but I still got $600 for it, and prices have gone way up since then.

If I stripped and seperated the steel, aluminium, and cast irol, I would expect at least $2500 from a fishbowl, but as you said, with the time involved, not worth it.