Looking for any parts and information about Cummins PT Pumps

[frank-id]

Anyone have any PT Pump info?  I want/need some more HP, but do not want to spend $4-500.  I've taken a few apart and noted the asswembly.  Some truckers build their own pumps for power.  Any help appreciated.     Frank    in Idaho

[NJT 5573]

Frank I have jacked my Cummins pumps for years. What motor are you working on? How much weight are you moving? How good is your cooling system? What button is in your pump now? The parts are under $20. Its a 10 min job and its a pleasure to drive a hot pump.

[frank-id]

NJT, I have been looking to talk to you.  I also want to learn the PT Pump changes.  Please send me a phone number.    Frank-idatcrown.myfr.net

[skipn]

NJT 5573,

   What do you exactly mean by "jacked" your Cummins pump? Can it be done to a L10?

  Thanks
Skip

[frank-id]

Most all Cummins PT Pumps can be changed or modified.  These pumps can be altered to make really huge amounts of HP.  With every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.  Power up, economy down.  Cummins builds engines for many applications, as such, the fully adjustable fuel pump.  Pump builders have long had a captive audience. An old trucker asked me recently, "ya got a #10 button in that Cummins?"
Well, that was the beginning.  Last week there was an Ebay sale for a #10 button, and sold for $35 dollars.  I think these buttons can be made for less dollars.  The "buttons" are made from about #30 smallest to #2
largest quantity of fuel.  There are other support parts required. I'm just learning about these pumps.
Frank            Good reading about power...  they speak Cummins..     http://www.dieselinjection.net/

[boogiethecat]

On the other hand, do you already have a turbo?  Do you have the block that has separate oil pump section and oil galleries that are specifically to squirt oil on the backsides of the pistons to keep them cool?  Are you making any black smoke at altitude? The answers to these questions are important to consider before you go messing with your buttons.
  Most of the older Crowns Ive seen come with the standard naturally aspirated cummins 220.  If you change buttons on them all you're going to do is make more black smoke, because they come set already for as much fuel as can be shoved in at sea level without making smoke, and at any altitude it's already too much fuel.  Smoke= wasted fuel anywhere, and overheated engines at altitude...

If you turbo a 220 to get more air going in and you add much (if any) HP at all, you're going to melt your pistons because those blocks don't have the piston cooling system to handle even 30 more hp.  5-7PSI wastegate-controlled boost is all that's safe (in this mode it's called a "smoke turbo"), and this is enough to make your motor totally keep it's 220HP at altitudes, but go for any more you're likely asking for a new motor in short order...

If you have a turbo'd version, then you may be able to hop it up successfully.  But messing with the pump on your own is tricky... properly done it takes a test bench and a lot of knowledge that's not easy to come by for even a smart individual who doesn't do this daily.  Not to mention that you may get more hp but at the same time may be creating more smog without knowing it, or screwing up whatever that you aren't aware of...

Personally, I'd pay the money and get someone who knows what they're doing to do it.  And I'm the kind of guy that rarely says or does that... but there are still a very few things best left to the pros, and this (in my opinion) is one of them.

The expert?  I like the guys at Sierra Diesel Injection service in Reno.  There's a couple guys there that know all there is to know about PT systems and they do very good work...  775 329 4232

[NJT 5573]

Frank, I had some decent pulling 220 engines in the old days. My phone is 253 350 092five. I never thought about selling my old parts stash on Ebay! You won't get any satisfaction from the pump shop so forget that. If your CPL calls for 145 lbs rail, the shop might give you 160. The last one of my pumps that was on a stand pushed 400 lbs.

[skipn]

NJT5573,
   400#'s and there was no injector issues...I am amazed. Learned something new.

As far as having a shop bump feul pumps beyond use specs when I was a Cat Mechanic(70's) the truckers were always asking if we would bump
the rack up. The shop rule was if we were caught we would pay the fine and be down the road. At that time if memory serves it was a 10K fine.
That was more than enough motivation to keep things exactly at spec for that use. Granted most of these engines can output more but for the
on road use the latitude for adjustment is pretty confined.

Thanks for the info. I think I may check into this more.

Skip

[NJT 5573]

Skip, That 855 Cummins is tough! If you have the time you should read Bruces articles. 400 lbs of rail is nice, but it will melt an engine (only one piston at a time), if you don't know what you are doing. The injectors seem to like the increased pressure. It is harder on the cam lobes though to push that much pressure. The right way is to use larger injectors and keep the rail pressure lower.  Truck drivers seldom have access to a fat set of injectors so the rail gets increased until it runs decent. Increased rail also greatly improves cold starting. These are 60,70, and 80s engines and had little emission control. They were 10 times cleaner than a 318 Detroit even pumped up and I still see a 318 around now and then.

[Outback Man]

I have a 1980 903 Cummins with turbo in a Flyer transit bus. Not too much power or speed but runs great and uses no oil. I talked to the guy who trains the mechanics at the Seattle bus shop where I bought it from and he said that they ran them at 2050 rpms and if I left it set up the way they have it I would not be able to wear it out. The bus has no tach so I don't know if it is actually running that rpm or not. I have talked to some old truckers who ran 903's and they said they ran them 2500 rpm. I would like info on this or boosting the pump or resetting the injectors. Also, would a different rear end ratio be of benefit?

[skipn]

NJT5573; I read Bruces articles probably 6 months ago and am rereading. It is good info. Lots to think about.

From my stand point what I am trying to achieve is better understanding of my engine so I can maximize any effiencies and if that means more HP so be it. My parameters are basically running the throttle at 60-80% of max for most situations. Removing any restrictions on intake, exhaust and feul. Increasing volume/pressure where it makes sense on intake,exhaust and feul. That being said I know I already have some restriction on the air intake to the air filter. From other posts on this board I have seen some very doable solutions. It would appear that feul to the rails can be increased by pressure and or higher volume pump and or bigger injectors. Probably a combination will be used. As with my D333 cat the L10 it is what it is unless I am willing to spend big bucks. When and if the L10 dies (hopefully never) I will be replacing it with the cat.
   We were planning on taking the bus down to Fort collins next month for a friends graduation and I was going to haul everybody down in the bus. Now with feul the way it is everybody believes it would be cheaper to load everybody into more feul efficient cars. Yech! They have no sense of adventure.

Any more helpful thoughts to acheive my goals is always appreciated.
Skip

[NJT 5573]

Outback, The RPM increase is real easy, just some shims. Brader in Toppenish Wa. ran a large fleet of 903s for many years. 450 RPM should get you another 20 MPH. The 903 uses the same PT pump as the NH/NTC engines. It just has a bunch of different calibration parts in it. You will get some more power from the RPM shims, how much I don't know because I have never put that many RPM shims under the RPM gov spring. (for those that don't know, the 903 is a V8 Cummins and will take several hundred more constant RPM than the inline 6 without damage). The PT pump has a mechanical tach drive, (hopefully not left off your application).  Lets borrow a tach and cable from a donor and see how many RPM you have now. I don't think you will need to recalibrate/flow the injectors to be happy with the power. Brader had some 903s that you would swear were running empty until you looked in the trailer! A differential swap would be great. You could replace the entire unit with a complete rear SQHD for under $1000 and probably choose from 4.44, 4.33, 4.11, 3.90, 3.70 ratios, they were all common. You may find a 3.55, let's see 2500 RPM... and how fast did you want to go thru Vantage? I sure wish my 6V92 was a 903, its heavier but I"d be smilin! My buddie Big Tommy used to run for Brader. Tommy never drove any pump stock. I'll get some info on what worked good/best, Tommy never forgets that kind of stuff!

[NJT 5573]

Skip. Thought I had seen an L10 with a PT version. Maybe they did both mechanical and computer versions. How much does Cummins charge to reflash the computer for the higher HP settings? I bet you would like that!

[skipn]

NJT5573;
  You could alway take a run to the Palluse (sp) area and by a Versatile with a 903 for peanuts. Any more the used farm
Implements with the high horsepower engines are going real cheap any more. I always considered  Vantage close to flat land?
Almost as bad(good) as Moses Lake (110f at 10:30 at night) Lord loves that country it will grow anything.

   It was the newer L10's that were eletronic just before the M11 were marketed. Mine is mechanical.
The M11 basically has the same bore but a longer stroke on the same block with the electronics to bump up where ever you want to go. No matter what it still comes down to air volume and feul volume. I don't think I can afford to get to the 500 HP mark. Might be fun trying though.  But you probably have already thought about those possiblities with the 6v92 (lots of fun and probably easier)
  Skip