Welcome to California - Well, not really!

[Dave5Cs]

Lol, Jim did you mean to spell it that way? It is an accurate statement, especially for Don! Sorry, I couldn't resist! Histerical / historical 

Nope they are actually included in this ruling this time

[windtrader]

Well, being in CA and govt handsout galore, I think I will look for a grant so I can convert to hydrogen under some clean air scheme. LOL

[Dave5Cs]

Not so far fetched .

[windtrader]

Research update.
For all busnuts with older buses that have been exempted thus far in CA, the net has been cast upon us.
I found a company that is active and has expertise and knowledge of all this nonsense. The lead in is that there is an existing program called PSIP that does opacity testing for high emission old vehicles. What I read was the new Clean Truck Check is tied in with PSIP. The new testing for non-OBD engines is opacity test, same as PSIP.

The Periodic Smoke Inspection Program (PSIP) and the Heavy-Duty Inspection and Maintenance Program (HD I/M) Clean Truck Check are inspection and smog check programs to ensure polluting, poorly maintained heavy-duty vehicles operating in California are quickly identified and repaired.

What I heard today is two key things. First, currently the first phase in 2023, CARB has put up sensors along the roadways and when it detects excess pollutants including particulate matter, the LPR (License Plate Reader) grabs your details then sends you a letter to show up at a state certified testing site. The next phase later this year, early next year, CARB will scan the DMV databases selecting the vehicles that need to get into compliance then send a NST notice where you have 30 days to get tested.
Second, she was very forthcoming with the various loopholes and schemes to beat this stuff, legal of course but the new equipment is going to close those off. For example, register as a historical vehicle or drive less than 1000 miles, register out of state, etc. Great as long as you just go the events or drive so little and stay under the radar(literally real time sensor trackers). Otherwise, the damn sensors will track you and you pop up too often, you gonna get the letter.

Sadly, this really may be the end of CA registered old buses. I'm still reaching out to other organization that should know what is going on but this must be a wakeup call for we CA busnuts. Will I sell mine? dunno yet.

[dtcerrato]

Research update.
For all busnuts with older buses that have been exempted thus far in CA, the net has been cast upon us.
I found a company that is active and has expertise and knowledge of all this nonsense. The lead in is that there is an existing program called PSIP that does opacity testing for high emission old vehicles. What I read was the new Clean Truck Check is tied in with PSIP. The new testing for non-OBD engines is opacity test, same as PSIP.
What I heard today is two key things. First, currently the first phase in 2023, CARB has put up sensors along the roadways and when it detects excess pollutants including particulate matter, the LPR (License Plate Reader) grabs your details then sends you a letter to show up at a state certified testing site. The next phase later this year, early next year, CARB will scan the DMV databases selecting the vehicles that need to get into compliance then send a NST notice where you have 30 days to get tested.
Second, she was very forthcoming with the various loopholes and schemes to beat this stuff, legal of course but the new equipment is going to close those off. For example, register as a historical vehicle or drive less than 1000 miles, register out of state, etc. Great as long as you just go the events or drive so little and stay under the radar(literally real time sensor trackers). Otherwise, the damn sensors will track you and you pop up too often, you gonna get the letter.

Sadly, this really may be the end of CA registered old buses. I'm still reaching out to other organization that should know what is going on but this must be a wakeup call for we CA busnuts. Will I sell mine? dunno yet.

It seems like this subject matter is hitting home with this, the only forum based in California and relating directly to what the forum is wrapped around - older bus conversions. Personally after driving our one & only bus for over 43 years now - we wouldn't hesitate to make it a tiny home but until then if I can afford fuel for it I'm driving it but considerably less these days.

[luvrbus]

We have a county here in AZ ,Maricopa (phoenix) they are getting stupid with emission testing on the older diesel engines too.I go back to Texas late this summer, the Texas air quality board gave AT&T a 3 year extension if they can clean the 12v92 powered generators engines up a little more since Caterpillar is over 3 years out for delivery for new generators.

[windtrader]

Dan - this only affects CA residents that own these older busnut converted buses and early pro conversions done on 2 stroke powered diesels, pre-OBD and early OBD and not DPF upgraded. 49 state busnuts - keep on driving until the fuel card gets denied! lol

Clifford - I'm not inclined to know what surrounding green states like Oregon and Washington are doing on this but if they put the hammer down to bury 2-strokes last time, then they surely have an eye on this nonsense.
What is surprising is how few CA busnuts there are here. I posted on BCI on FB, same thing, not a stir. ?

[buswarrior]

What organization is advocating on behalf of older RV?

It took political ACTION to have the exemptions currently in place, these were not given freely...

As the years go by, the grip tightens through apathy and attrition.

Where should we be directing our membership money?

ACTION, not flaccid typing...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

Green Enegry it is coming to a theater near you 

[windtrader]

What organization is advocating on behalf of older RV?

It took political ACTION to have the exemptions currently in place, these were not given freely...

As the years go by, the grip tightens through apathy and attrition.

Where should we be directing our membership money?

ACTION, not flaccid typing...

BW - I'd love to think even remotely there is a chance to alter this regulation but I'm just not convinced. CA has been dead set on banning all 2 stroke motors. It has done it with boating and they even put increased restrictions on simple landscaping motors. Others like Clifford know the history behind the efforts starting many years ago to sweep two strokes off. That was the death of two strokes and total replacement by four stroke diesels.

I suspect at that time, the RV industry was more active to ensure their two stroke diesel pushers would have some cover but that is years ago and virtually all are now in compliance. There were some exceptions at the time like motorhomes and buses that were converted to motorhomes and titled/registered as such. There was also some limited use exceptions.

The new regulations seem broader and catch it all, leaving hardly any two strokes on the road, achieving what they did with boats on all inland waters; I believe some 2 strokes are on the open water, dunno.

Anyway, we have no advocates left except us. And by the incredible lack of response to this thread, posted in the heart of the affected constituents, it's hard to believe there will be more than a whimper from those like me that at this point are just scratching for details. I have no plans to raise objections, just use my time and energy to find pathways that minimize the impact on us.

The key question now is 40% opacity level. Does a clean running 2 stroke NA engine pass? Or is this just some BS level and all will fail anyway? Again, others are far more knowlegable. Before DPF was mandated, was under 40% normal? After DPF do they meet the 5% limit? How much is a DPF mod?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

The 2 strokes won't meet the 5% no matter what you do,people sale 60 series because they can not reach the 2010 standards,it would be a waste of $25,000.00 to try and upgrade to a DPF that is a expensive system. My good friend Don Fairchild worked years on emission control for the 2 stroke lol and bless his heart he got a 6L-71 to tier 1 and by then the tier 4 was in effect in CA, you can stick a fork in the 2 strokes and some 4 strokes they are done and that is why MTU sold it off to BMW   

[freds]

Turn's out there are some detroit diesel dpf retrofit kit's, here's what I came up with on some google research:

https://www.dieseldash.com/exhaust-system/DDE-RA0004903792-detroit-reman-dpf-kit?cclcl=en_US

https://www.dieseldash.com/exhaust-system/ESZ-ADN1501-freightliner-dpf-exhaust-filter?cclcl=en_US

https://www.traceytruckparts.com/product/alliance-detroit-diesel-dpf-filter-kit-abp-n49-adj0813-c/

https://www.alliancetruckparts.com.au/Content/Uploads/Diesel_Particulate_Fitlers_(DPF)_Brochure.pdf?_ga=2.158359219.861222191.1684428199-1234916163.1684428199

https://www.eautotools.com/OTC-556889-p/otc556889.htm

https://firsttruckparts.com/products/ra0014907692-genuine-detroit-diesel-particulate-filter-kit

My understanding is that there are also some Volvo semi-truck with DPF filters. Maybe by a complete assemble from a heavy truck wrecking yard and use it to replace the muffler.

[Iceni John]

My engine is being completely rebuilt right now, and I'm curious how clean its exhaust will be when it's back in service.   So saying, I'm assuming that at some point I will have to say goodbye to California and find a more-receptive state, at least to register my bus in.   Some RV owners in the storage yard where I keep my bus have Montana license plates on their RVs, but CA frowns on that.   Maybe South Dakota or one of those states that offers full-timers a mailing address for a legal domicile would be an option?

I'll be deleting my muffler, so then I'll have its space available for a DPF, maybe.   Can one get a DPF from a junked truck in a salvage yard, or do they (like catalytic converters in CA) have to be specific for the exact engine type?   Alliance's DPFs aren't legal in CA, but they don't list any for 2-strokes anyway.

John

[luvrbus]

You start adding anything to a 2 stroke engine that adds back pressure to the exhaust system,the fun begins,DDEC engines burn cleaner than the mechanical.The few I have been around with catalytic converters (RTS) were dogs and the converters were always plugged ,84 years old the 2 strokes have severed us well may they RIP

[Lin]

If CARB is set on outlawing my wonderful, vintage 8v71, they probably will manage to do it.  Short of some large RV lobbying group being able to carve out a political exception, there is nothing standing in their way.  Our MC5a currently doubles as a guest house anyway.  I would consider out-of-registration or antique registration just to keep it movable though.