Electric Buses for Conversions

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

In the past two years, many schools, especially in Southern California are changing over to Electric Buses to power their fleet.   

Jon Usle, our School Bus resident expert has already driven several of these buses and noted that they have great acceleration so they can get out of Dodge in a hurry if necessary, and you may not even have to gear down going up long hills like the Grapevine in SoCal.

They obviously create fewer emissions and E-buses are apparently cheaper than running gas or diesel-powered buses, or why else would the government buy them? 

Eventually, those buses will "wear out", and the maintenance will be too expensive to continue to maintain just like the diesel-powered buses they had before.  When that happens, they will make great bus conversions.  Clean the bubble gum out from under the seats, convert the inside, install a fresh set of batteries,  and start traveling.

Electric buses may never be feasible in snow country, or even where it is cold many of the days they run them, that is until they can find a feasible way to keep the batteries warm, which some lithium batteries already have.  I don't know of any schools in Alaska that have made the switch yet, just sayin'.

The next buses to be converted to electric, after semi-trucks of course as they are already here, will be the long-range buses such as the Greyhound and Trailways type buses.

Cross-country buses will either have fast chargers at each station while passengers are loading and unloading (this time may be lengthened), or they will go longer ranges and the batteries will be swapped out with a fully recharged set, probably by automation.  Some would say by "robots" but they are not really robots. 

I am not sure how far an E-bus can travel currently between charges, but 300 miles on level ground would not surprise me if they are not stop-n-go type city buses and school buses.  Going through the Serria mountains, or the Appalachian mountains may reduce their range considerably unless they can regen going down the other side, which most do now.

What year do you think these used buses will be available to the public so you and I can buy them and have sufficient range to run them for an average 3-4 hour day, as according to a recent survey, that is how long most people travel in their bus conversions in a day.  It will be nice to have a quiet bus to drive and not have to deal with getting diesel fuel spilled on your shoes anymore.

We can stop at an RV Park for the day, a Rest Area Charging Station, or a Truck Stop overnight and recharge them before heading out the next day on our way to our next recharging station.

Would you also install an onboard Generator just in case?  Theoretically, if you had an all-electric bus, you really should not need one.


What are your thoughts on this, and who besides me is excited about this new technology?

[DoubleEagle]

They might be more practical if there is enough room to install a 20Kw generator to charge the batteries. The campgrounds might not have enough capacity to charge them quickly enough, and boondocking would be limited without a lot of solar and generating capacity.

[Nova Eona]

I'm very excited about the idea of electric buses, and even hope to electrify or hybrid-ize my 4104 someday, challenge though it would be

I think a lot of it is going to come down to what's feasible on a corporate level rather than an engineering level - right now it would be comparatively easy to design a fast-swap universal battery system which would make 'recharging' take no more time than refueling does now, but even beyond creating that network of swap-stations there's a host of issues on the bureaucratic side - whose battery/connection standard to use, how do you handle the older cells, etc. etc.

Battery tech still has a lot of growth potential too, it's not unfeasible to think that in another decade or two we'll have batteries capable of fast-charging at unimaginable speeds compared to today while boasting far more capacity as well.

I think hybrid solutions have a great deal of potential.  Even better would be a modular system - got a bus with a local route that goes a bit beyond what the onboard battery array can handle?  Toss an extended range battery pack in and call it good.  For longer trips, places with less charging facilities, and/or colder climates a high-efficiency quiet diesel module could extend the range even further while providing some heat as well, or swap out the fuel type depending on circumstances.

Personally I'm just waiting for a time that heavy electric axles start to show up at second-hand providers for reasonable prices.  I'd love to slap one of those in my bus, shove in a battery pack from a Tesla or such, then replace my Spicer with a generator head so I can have a diesel-electric system just like a train.

[chessie4905]

You better check what full battery replacement is gonna cost. Thousands. You may be enthused by this, but I would never
even contemplate one. Probably have a car though, but not a Tesla.

[luvrbus]

It will be a while before it happens schools buses run a couple of hours in the morning then they go back on charger for the afternoon runs Have you noticed all the pickup boxes Amazon is placing around you,that is because the electric vans they have only have a 100 mile range on a good day without a lot of stops and starts,The school district here were testing the electric buses,my doctor is on the board and told me they were passing on the electric buses good old Cummins diesel engines around here for school buses 

[Tedsoldbus]

If it is all I can buy, maybe, but I will put big speakers in the front and back of my electric bus and run the sound of an 8V92 at 2200 RPM when I am coming into a campground...
I know it is coming Gary, but I am going to go out biting and scratching. There will be fewer and fewer of us in old buses so they maybe won't have to legislate us off the road - but I wouldn't put it past them.

I understand trying to save the planet from carbon, but the same people that think electricity comes from wind and solar think that all star wrestling is real, money isn't everything, and we have control of our southern border.

I drive 5 states away on our 5 to 8 trips a year. Make mine diesel.

[David Anderson]

I have already stayed at RV parks that charge for an extra space if you have an EV.  $55 for the space x2.  It may eventually happen, but it sure won't be free.  Parks would have to upgrade electrical to fast charge any EV.  Fast chargers are in the 240v 70 amp range. 
David

[freds]

Well it's all about infrastructure and that ties back into how many miles you will drive a day.

The charging infrastructure is still being built for cars, not something the size our buses...

So where will the first EV bus conversion come from? I would say one of the major converters who buy a minimal drive train and shell from Prevost or MCI and they will want a couple million for the final combination.

People make noises that they will buy the first wreaked Tesla semi which I sort of think is at least a decade away, because it will go out the door with self driving hardware and will initially be driven on experienced pro drivers.  it will be awhile before the software/AI networks catches up with this size vehicle.

I think most of the people on here are converting old buses or redoing a previous conversion so not going to pay a couple million to have a turn key solution.

However mass numbers and money talks. There's a company that is creating a tag along single axle for semi-trucks that seems to have components that we would need to do this. It's designed to move an 80,000 pound semi-truck 250 miles. Target price in volume is $50,000.00... So hey 40,000 pounds would go how far?

Here's a YouTube video talking about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSB3WaeolcU

And the company that is going to make it.

https://drivetandem.com/

If you yank the engine/transmission/cooling systems and the fuel tank out of one of our buses; I would think that you have enough installation volume to add something like this.

So you run the battery down to zero and check into a RV park it might take 48 hours to refill the pack. If on the road EV truck stops are not available.

But hey what is the flip side of mostly full pack to Boone dock?

Is this DIY with the typical skill set of people on here? Too bloody early to say. I have been awed by some of the drive train updates that I have seen.

I think every one has noticed that my solar panels are elevated above the bus. So hey how about in the gap below them?  I might add three full battery modules from Tesla Model S or X and drive their electric motors from the same vehicles bonded together with a super gear box into a current drive axle?

I do tinker a lot, but hey even thinking about after tipping a few that idea would take a long time to grow on me!!!!

[freds]

I have already stayed at RV parks that charge for an extra space if you have an EV.  $55 for the space x2.  It may eventually happen, but it sure won't be free.  Parks would have to upgrade electrical to fast charge any EV.  Fast chargers are in the 240v 70 amp range. 
David

Is that for one night where they do not directly charge you for the electricity that you consume?

I am currently staying in Texas at monthly rate plus electricity consumed at $0.14 per kilowatt hour. At home I pay $0.07 for the same juice. So even at $0.14 my 85KW Tesla would only consume $14.28 in juice with 80% efficiency for the charger.  So two times cost  for the space is an extreme over-reaction.

A better policy would ok, you have an EV we will just charge you for what you consume while you are staying with us...

[luvrbus]

I have already stayed at RV parks that charge for an extra space if you have an EV.  $55 for the space x2.  It may eventually happen, but it sure won't be free.  Parks would have to upgrade electrical to fast charge any EV.  Fast chargers are in the 240v 70 amp range. 
David

I have friend that owns a campground in Williams AZ he charges for 2 spaces in his pull through sites even if it is not a EV tow,It would be a nightmare for a existing campground to up grade to charge a EV without building a separate area just for EV charging,most struggle to give you a true 50 amps. 

Gary must have stopped drinking margaritas and changed over to the Coco Loco in Mexico now   

[windtrader]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/california-approves-2-9-billion-investment-double-car-chargers-state
electric buses are almost old tech. BYD tried to make it here. In China there are many on the road.

[chessie4905]

If they want to get serious, they can go back to  full electrification of the railroads. No need to fool around with battery locomotives. At one time Pennsylvania Railroad had looked at electrifying west of Harrisburg through The Horseshoe curve to Pittsburgh.

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Gary must have stopped drinking margaritas and changed over to the Coco Loco in Mexico now

Funny guy, as I read this on a beach in Baja.   

[luvrbus]

Funny guy, as I read this on a beach in Baja.   

Funny guy, as I read this on a beach in Baja.   

You are not drinking Coco Loco if you remember where you are at