lubricity of low surfur diesel

[Pig Rig IV]

Anyone worried about low surfur diesel in old 2 stroke detriots?,  several guys behind the counter at Napa were preaching about additives. Thanks Jeff 8V92 

[NJT 5573]

Gearoil is very hi sulpher.

[Pig Rig IV]

Are u suggesting using it as a addittive to the fuel and what ratio?

[lloyd]

The new ultra low sulphur should not hurt any of the fuel systems. The newer systems have tighter tolerance on the injectors and are doing fine so the older injector that have more internal clearance should be fine. The oil companies have had to assure the public that the older systems would not be damaged. I have heard of people adding 2 stroke chian saw oil to the fuel in the winter, at least it is made to be burned.

[TomC]

I highly recommend you NOT to try to second guess the oil companies.  Do you think they would put in jeopardy our petroleum products used for military and commerce movement? (military is primarily Diesel).  As stated, 2 stroker injectors-even the electronic ones- are loose compared to the newest electronic injectors that are used now.  Mercedes-Benz uses around 32,000psi of tip pressure.  That is several times higher than the older injectors we use.  I've driven cross country for 21 years.  Personally do NOT put any additive in unless I'm going into cold weather-which hasn't happened yet.  Using the wrong or improper fuel additive can do real havoc to your engine.  Just ask some who have been using B100 (100% veggie oil) as to how mucked up the engine gets.  I've seen some so carboned up that they had to use a chisel and hammer to remove the build up-but that's another story (Detroit only approves B5 [5% veggies oil] in the new engines because of the loading up it does).  Good Luck, TomC

[NJT 5573]

Damn, I wonder why the Railroad and the Military are exempt? They don't have to run it.

[belfert]

Damn, I wonder why the Railroad and the Military are exempt? They don't have to run it.

The military has long been exempt from many pollution laws for whatever reason.  The military still runs a LOT of old equipment.  I visted a local military base during the winter a few years back and pretty much all of the pcikup trucks were old 1980s GM models with the 6.2 diesel engine.  The pickups were left idling almost all of the time even if not being driven for a number of hours.  (And we wonder why the military spends so much money and why oil costs so much!)  The temps were not that extreme and my new Ford diesel pickup had no problems starting and was never left idling.

Railroads I believe are lumped in with off highway vehicles that have different pollution standards although the EPA is starting to cllean up off highway vehicles too.

I wonder where off highway uses will consider to get high sulphur diesel as most refineries switch to ULSD?  Most refineries don't the space or equipment to produce more than one type of diesel let alone produce ULSD, LSD, and high sulphur diesel.
Brian Elfert

[orfunauto/Darrell]

Just some FYI from a newbie:

I work for the USAF in vehicle management.  We have not been exempt from environmental regualtions for several years now.  We are gearing up for the use of ultra-low sulfur fuel here at our base.  We were told ultra-low sulfur fuel will work fine in the older vehicles and that the vehicles that will be assigned to us in the near future (2007 and newer diesels) have been mandated to use ULS fuels only.  We will not be able to use our present fuel in these vehicles as it will cause damage to the "scrubbers" that are part of the exhaust system.  At the present time we are required to use B20 diesel in all of our equipment with the exception of emergency response vehicles.  B20 does have it's problems....  It has been found to grow algea in fuel tanks that do not get fresh fuel for extended periods. Condensation was determined to be the promoter of algea growth.  Our solution is to be sure that the fuel is used within a six month period, that tanks are not continuosly topped off, and fuel levels are brought below a quarter of tank before fill ups.  These practices have almost eliminated the algea growth in tanks.   FWIW     

[TomC]

By 2010, pretty much all land based engines sold will have the same requirements for smog emissions.  Caterpillar, the biggest off road equipment manufacturer, is already using their ACERT technology in their engines.  Even though not required for marine yet, the ACERT engines are also available for marine use.  EPA is finally realizing that off-road equipment is using the same air as on-road equipment.  Railroad locomotive manufacturers (read General Electric and General Motors Electro Motive Diesel) are also coming out with locomotives that are considered to be green-meaning environmentally clean.  In Los Angeles we have some switchers that are hybrid natural gas/electric that are very quiet (sometimes running without the engine on) and produce next to zero emissions.
So saying that the off road and railroads are not being affected is just not true.  They are just being given a bit more time to come up to the emission standards.  Good Luck, TomC

[NJT 5573]

B20 to ULSD seems like a big jump for the Airforce. Guess they can have their own additive package. Hope it works out. Sounds like they need money for current equiptment. Congress is liable to put them on veggie oil to make sure America looses.

[Earl-8-Ky]

I think there is nothing to worry about with the . I believe that all DD 2 cycles are built to burn # 1 diesel and I believe that is a low sulfer fuel. Maybe I am wrong. Some one come in and let me know.

[TomC]

With proper lubricity, Diesels can burn anything that is combustible (combustible=ignition of the fuel with high heat.  Flammable= ignition with a "flame" or spark) and has enough oil in it to lube the injection equipment.  The military had multi fuel engines that had adjustable combustion ratio and fuel delivery, with self lubing injection pump to burn practically anything that was combustible.  Good Luck, TomC