Metal In Oil Pan - How Much Is Too Much?

[brianzero]

Hi All,

I had to pull my oil pan to change my leaky oil pan gasket which was hard as rock, and braze up an annoying pin hole leak on the pan, and in the pan, there was a big glop of old sludge that probably never drained properly, and survived a few oil changes.

Trapped in that sludge was quite a bit of metal fragments. The drain plug magnet had the normal amount of magnetic sludge, but none of this other stuff was stuck to it (even though the metal in the photos is ferrous).

I suppose the question is, how much metal have you all seen when you drop the oil pan, and at what point do you begin to worry?

[windtrader]

Hello,
Given the pan gasket was hard the pan's not been off for a long time. That kind of metal debris is not normal but it's hard to tell where it came from and how long it has been there. There is nothing you can do to resolve the issue at this point.
Clean the pan totally, put in new oil, change the filter, drive it for a few hundred miles then pull the pan and see what is there. Hopefully, it will be clean and no debris, even fine particles. If so, then I'd not worry about it but might do a change after a couple thousand just to make sure it was a one time problem.
Ifg more of that stuff shows up, you have a major internal engine problem. Others here can advise how to proceed down that path.

[chessie4905]

Oil sample after 100 miles with oil change. Or if you still have the old oil, draw a sample.

[brianzero]

The engine runs well and doesn't show any signs of being unhealthy in any way, so I 'guess' its not ring or cylinder wall material. One of the samples looks mixed with brass or some yellow metal.

[luvrbus]

Looks like a thrust bearing material and a drive coupling material  on the rear for the compressor, alternator or power steering ,the thrust bearing take a beating on engines with clutches and manual transmission now is the time to replace those with the pan off and roll all new bearing rods and mains both ,cheap insurance for you a nasty job but worth it ? how many psi of oil pressure do you have   

[tr206]

Looks like a thrust bearing material and a drive coupling material  on the rear for the compressor, alternator or power steering ,the thrust bearing take a beating on engines with clutches and manual transmission now is the time to replace those with the pan off and roll all new bearing rods and mains both ,cheap insurance for you a nasty job but worth it ? how many psi of oil pressure do you have

Rolling in new bearings would be a no brainer if it is a thrust bearing check the crank,cap and block for damage too. Old debris from a previous issue is not likely unless the pan didn't get cleaned out.

[brianzero]

Rolling in new bearings would be a no brainer if it is a thrust bearing check the crank,cap and block for damage too. Old debris from a previous issue is not likely unless the pan didn't get cleaned out.

That magnetic drain plug had next to no debris on it. Just the normal magnetic slime, and not much of it. This make me think that because this metal was held down in a layer of old sludge, the metal was something that happened prior to the rebuild? That's just a guess. It looks like the old pan didnt get cleaned.

I have good oil pressure, and it comes right up.

[luvrbus]

I would pull the oil pickup and check a couple of main bearing and rod bearings if they are good, it only cost you a little time, I doubt it is from a previous failure,sludge in a Detroit oil pan is caused by low operating temperatures, or crappy oil, cut the bottom from the oil filter and see what you have inside it   

[brianzero]

I would pull the oil pickup and check a couple of main bearing and rod bearings if they are good, it only cost you a little time, I doubt it is from a previous failure,sludge in a Detroit oil pan is caused by low operating temperatures

Do those rod caps pop off when you remove the two nuts? Or do you need some kind of puller? Do you know the torque specs to put the two nuts back on?

[luvrbus]

Do those rod caps pop off when you remove the two nuts? Or do you need some kind of puller? Do you know the torque specs to put the two nuts back on?

Just tap the side they come off easy,rod bearings torque at 65 to 70 ft lbs the mains at 230 to 240 ft lbs pull the rear main and check it too it will have a set of thrust (washers) bearings on it 

[brianzero]

Just tap the side they come off easy,rod bearings torque at 65 to 70 ft lbs the mains at 230 to 240 ft lbs pull the rear main and check it too it will have a set of thrust (washers) bearings on it

Good, thanks for that torque spec. What do you think about this main cap removal and bearing inspection video? I suspect this is what I will be working with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHeO1h3U4GE

[luvrbus]

Good, thanks for that torque spec. What do you think about this main cap removal and bearing inspection video? I suspect this is what I will be working with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHeO1h3U4GE

A little tip if you roll new main bearing in ,loosen all the main caps remove and replace 1 at a time with the caps lose  then the main bearings roll in easy then go back and torque the mains 

[brianzero]

Why not just throw in new bearings if I'm in there?

[luvrbus]

Why not just throw in new bearings if I'm in there?

I would myself,but sometimes the bearing are ok and people use the old ones, bearings are cheap any sign of wear I replace all the bearings

[windtrader]

The others have the experience and know how but I  have some common sense. If you want to resolve the stated concern you posted and state the engine runs good, oil pressure is good, etc. then you could start changing parts but I don't see how that resolves your conern.

If the bits are stuck in the sluge and not stuck on the magnet then it is likely from some previous incident. Clean the pan, change the oil and filters and run it for a bit. Check the magnetic plug and if clean, you are all good. KISS