What bus to start with

[ltcinfantry]

First post here. I'm about a month into researching bus conversions. Watched several YouTube videos of a few conversion projects and learned a bunch. I've never done a bust conversion of any kind but have some good construction and mechanical skills.

So the first big question—which bus to start with. I've read a few threads here but most are 4-5 years old. I'd really like to get some input from you experienced bus builders. I'm pretty wide open but have great interest in MCI, Setra and Temsa. Temsa because of the 30', 35' and 45' options.  Temsa USA headquarters is in Orlando Florida which is just 30 minutes away which makes it even more attractive for service support. They have several 30' and 35' models in the 2012 to 2014 range that fit my initial purchase budget.

So....anyone here done a Temsa or Setra conversion who can share their experience? Photo or video you can share of your project? Why you would or would not do it again?

Thanks in an advance!

[lostagain]

If you really, really want to do a conversion, MCI DL3 is top of the list.

But the more prudent, sensible thing to do would be to buy a bus that is already converted. Much cheaper at the end of the day, and you get to go camping that night.

You think a conversion will take you 6 months or a year... It will take 2 to 3 times as long, and 2 to 3 times the money you budget now.

JC

[Tom Y]

Welcome, aboard.

If looking for a short bus not many choices. I like my MCI 5C but it runs a drop box. The GMs run a V drive. Point being you need to see what the down side is with the ones you like. I am of no help there. I worked on mine for 6 years, but did a lot on it more than some others.

Good luck on your search and purchase. 

[ltcinfantry]

If you really, really want to do a conversion, MCI DL3 is top of the list.

But the more prudent, sensible thing to do would be to buy a bus that is already converted. Much cheaper at the end of the day, and you get to go camping that night.

You think a conversion will take you 6 months or a year... It will take 2 to 3 times as long, and 2 to 3 times the money you budget now.

JC

Thanks JC. That would be easier but being semi-retired I have plenty of free time and in no hurry. I'm looking at this is a great project. We have looked at some builds for ideas and even regular Class As and none are laid out in a way that we like. So would rather build from the ground up. I kinda figured I would end up over budget—can't think of a protect I've done where I actually stayed under budget.

[chessie4905]

if willing to get the 40 footer, lot more common to get parts on an MCI, since so many out there. and be cheaper to pick up a used one. go with 60 series. getting too difficult to get 2 stroke repaired any more. imagine another 5 to 10 years from now. just don't try to go cheap and end up with a worn out 60, or a shell with a history of electronics problems. stay away from ones that are based in the ne.

[TomC]

I would stay under 40ft, but get a 102" wide bus. The MCI 102C3 is prime. But I would also NOT get anything with the old 2 stroke Detroits (6-71, 6V-92, 8V-71, 8V-92). Series 60 pre 2002 (before EGR) is prime). Get Allison automatic.

I have a Super C based on a Kenworth cabover where I had the 32ft box custom made to my specifications. MUCH EASIER doing maintenance, and any truck dealer that works on Caterpillar engines. Good Luck, TomC

[ltcinfantry]

I would stay under 40ft, but get a 102" wide bus. The MCI 102C3 is prime. But I would also NOT get anything with the old 2 stroke Detroits (6-71, 6V-92, 8V-71, 8V-92). Series 60 pre 2002 (before EGR) is prime). Get Allison automatic.

I have a Super C based on a Kenworth cabover where I had the 32ft box custom made to my specifications. MUCH EASIER doing maintenance, and any truck dealer that works on Caterpillar engines. Good Luck, TomC

Thanks Tom. For MCI absolutely staying in the D4500 model (orJ if we are really lucky) at a minimum with Detroit diesel and Allison tranny. My cousin is a diesel mechanic so anything we buy with get a full overhaul done to it.

[oltrunt]

My ONLY regret about building my bus the way I wanted it is that I should have stated 10 years sooner.  By the time I got it "done" I can see that I don't have enough years left to use it up!  Better get cracking!  Jack

[dtcerrato]

My ONLY regret about building my bus the way I wanted it is that I should have stated 10 years sooner.  By the time I got it "done" I can see that I don't have enough years left to use it up!  Better get cracking!  Jack

What Jack said!

Jack my 92 yo father-in-law usually gives me this line whenever I achieve a project - "ita been nice to get that done 20 to 30 years ago"- spoken from shear experience I'm certain!...

[windtrader]

Welcome to the den of nuts that love buses and converting them. If you provide more information about yourself, what and where you plan to typically use it, realistic all in budget, upfront "deposit", realistic timeframe to be able to have it completed, what sort of tools and workshop or area where you can park it for the construction.

Almost always it is faster and cheaper to start with a converted bus, even if you don't like the layout, it is far easier and cheaper to "remodel" one, same as a house. There is so much internal wiring, plumbing, switches, relays, latches, special fasteners, and on and on, several here have gone that route and can chime in. good luck welcome aboard

[buswarrior]

With stars twinkling in their eyes, they pile on to 45 foot coaches...

And then one tries to go shopping at the grocery store with one...

And the tag steering makes wallets ache to either make right, or weld-up fixed...

And the @$# drags on the ground in and out of sloped driveways...

I drive them professionally, can put one between a bee's knees, and i bought a 40 foot D3 for the next project.

That extra 5 feet simply makes way more trouble than the volume is worth to me, for camper purposes.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[DoubleEagle]

Getting an already converted bus that has been carefully taken care of is the most practical way to go. Getting into a Setra or Temsa might be more expensive service and parts wise because they are not everywhere, and they may or may not continue in the long term in the US. Neoplan, for instance, is no longer around. Temsa only has locations in Georgia, Florida, New Jersey, and California. They might be big in Turkey and Europe, but not so much in the US. Setra has around a dozen locations. MCI, Prevost, and Van Hool are the current big players, but there are still GM, Eagle, and Flxible buses around with lots of fans.

A lot depends on how much you have to spend, and how handy you are at doing renovations and mechanical repairs. There are buses for sale out there that have had major work done to them and are ready to go for far less money than doing the conversion yourself. If you are just starting out with a first bus, get one that has already been done, otherwise, brace yourself for years of work and lots of expenses. Look at lots of different makes and models, and decide for yourself which sizes and models appeal to you. Some brands may be more attractive to you than others, and which engine and transmission you get are important considerations. Go to bus ralley's and club get-together's and talk to owners to benefit from their knowledge. Don't buy anything impulsively based on emotion or closeness of location. Do lots of research.

[lvmci]

What JC and buswarrior said. If you ever want to park in an RV park, 35' will fit in most RV park spaces, including state and national parks and can navigate tight access points with in those parks. Less spaces for 40' motorhomes and even less than that for 45'ers.
I've had a 35' 5A and a 40' 102C3, most recomended the "C" in the time frame I searched. The raised roof from the factory and 102"s wide, better airbags and other technical advances were great. Couldn't find one for sale with the 4 stroke from the factory (Both 2 and 4 stroke were first offered with the "C") other than rust buckets. "D's were to expensive at that time.
   But now "D's are abundant, have 40'ers, 4 strokes with the great series 60s and some already or partially converted. This saving you the time and effort of removal of the seats, baggage bins and the awful job of removing the toilet...

[ltcinfantry]

Welcome to the den of nuts that love buses and converting them. If you provide more information about yourself, what and where you plan to typically use it, realistic all in budget, upfront "deposit", realistic timeframe to be able to have it completed, what sort of tools and workshop or area where you can park it for the construction.

Almost always it is faster and cheaper to start with a converted bus, even if you don't like the layout, it is far easier and cheaper to "remodel" one, same as a house. There is so much internal wiring, plumbing, switches, relays, latches, special fasteners, and on and on, several here have gone that route and can chime in. good luck welcome aboard

Thanks Windtrader.

So I'm a retired Army guy who is now a building code inspector as a second career to pay for my fishing habit. I've done several home renovations and well as rebuilt a Jeep taking it all the way down to the frame and replacing the 4 cyl with a big hemi motor. Had to get 3 onboard computers to talk to each other which was harder than shoe horning the V-8 motor into it. Also built two motorcycles as well as redid the electrical systems on a Mercedes sedan so have a good grasp of the Mercedes Canbus systems. In the diesel arena I have a cousin who is a very experienced diesel mechanic with his own shop. I've accumulated a pretty good tool inventory over years and know building, electric, HVAC and structural concepts while also having skills in these and welding experience.

An indoor shop to work on a bus is the hard part as any storage in Florida is very expensive. This is the one limiting factor for us. We've owned one RV, a 23' Airstream which we absolutely loved except that it was it was a double twin and not a single queen.

As far as use—my wife and I want to travel the US and up to Canada and Alaska. Also want to visit our kids from time to time. We travel with 2 Chihuahuas.

I've never driven a bus but have driven a bunch of large Army trucks and semi tractor trailers so really intimidated by a bus with an automatic tranny.

Hope this kinda sets the stage for where I am in building skills and future. As far as budget, I want to keep it under $80K total but could go to $100k if need be. We won't be I full travel mode for a few years so have a couple years of build time available. We love the Class A size but down have a Class A budget so we believe a conversion is the right answer. My wife is an interior design pro so she knows how she wants it laid out. It's up to me to make sure that structure and layout can be done with the underside systems (plumbing, HVAC, electrical and such).

Oh, forgot to mention my friend is a professional engineer who works in boat manufacturing specializes in electrical systems. He a great asset to have for this build.

[Jim Blackwood]

My build is the "Red Bus" thread in the Projects forum. With your budget and skills, a 5 year build schedule would be reasonable, start to finish. Spending a year just finding the right bus will pay off handsomely in the long run but even then you might not find exactly what you are looking for. Buying a conversion and remodeling to meet your own needs is well within your budgetary limits and will save a lot of time, even with rather extensive remodeling. Make the right purchase and the driveline rebuild becomes unnecessary, freeing up cash for other niceties such as leveling jacks or a primo interior.

The mid to late 90's MCI is probably going to be your best bang for the buck but you also might find a nice Prevost in your range. Look for the 60 series 4 stroke and the Allison B500. 102 width gives a bigger living space than you might expect. 40 and 35 footers are much harder to find and expensive when you do. The 45 has more baggage space and room for larger tanks. It can make a very luxo rig because of that. Having driven semi's I doubt you'd have much of an issue with the extra length. They are more common and considerably less expensive as a general thing. So the real job ahead of you is to figure out what will work the best for you. The difference in usable baggage space between a 35 and a 45 is quite simply enormous. Likewise inside. Probably the 40 is the best balance, if you can find one without making too many compromises.

Speaking of which, one thing the longer bus lets you do is keep more of the existing systems just because you have the room to do it. Like the HVAC system. It makes perfect sense that the shorter bus owners remove those and install a mini-split for instance, especially in the narrower buses. It frees up basement space primarily, which is at a premium, all other considerations aside. But there can be advantages to keeping it. The smaller the bus is, the more critical it is that everything have it's place and be kept there, and that space is carefully apportioned and eked out on a most needed basis. This becomes much more flexible with a larger bus. For instance, rather than using a miniature washer/dryer setup there is room for the full sized appliances should you want that. A roomy kitchen, bath and bedroom are very real possibilities, and you can escape from the impression of being cramped pretty easily. So in the end it's all a matter of what you want and it takes awhile to decide just which priorities should take precedence.

As for the build or buy question, that largely depends on whether or not you can get the features you want in a completed conversion. The vast majority are going to have 2 stroke engines. If you are OK with that it broadens your choices tremendously. If not, it narrows them. That part is simple enough but the same approach applies to every other feature. By the time you have your feature list worked out you will have narrowed your potential candidates to a small list and can then start shopping. It may be that you will find just what you want at a price you can afford to pay and it's job done. It may be that you will never find everything that you have decided that you must insist on and you will have to build. Or anywhere in between. That's where the fun begins.

Jim