102D3 waste tank selection

Marweav · October 22, 2021, 03:03:43 PM

I talked to a guy that got used 275 gallon IBC totes. You can pick them up almost anywhere on FB marketplace for $50-$150

chessie4905 · October 22, 2021, 04:08:27 PM

Surplus city near home sells them for 75 bucks. Was tempted to buy one, but couldn't think of anything I'd use it for. They are really nice. Nice large drain valve on bottom. Might be too high.

chessie4905 · October 22, 2021, 04:15:51 PM

U S Plastics Corp. May have something to suit. They have hundreds of different tanks and containers in various sizes. I've purchased from them and very happy with two different style tanks.

Tedsoldbus · October 22, 2021, 06:29:11 PM

Although one big tank makes sense to me I have to agree with others that the grey tank can be the stink culprit. Not sure combining them is a good stink idea despite needing less plumbing, less dump valves etc.
When we full timed for a year we battled the stink until we talked others. We started being careful to wipe off plates and not send anything greasy down the sink. But perhaps shower water has more stink than we think? I also spend more time flushing at campgrounds. Makes me feel like I am getting more value for paying more to spend the night. We send a Home Depot bucket of hot water with Dawn down the grey. Same with the black but add some Calgon. After a bit, I take the time to fill both tanks completely and pull the handles. It takes time but it is their water and sewer. I do that twice. I am convinced the higher water volume sucks a lot of "bad" out of the tanks. At home I leave 5 gallons of water with Dawn in the black and about a gallon of same in the grey. After I started doing that we have no stink and perhaps because of Dawn the valves work much better when I dump. We use Camco when on a trip and it works great on the black tank. LOTS of water has been our best friend and though we boondock a little, always use a campground the night before coming home. Dump tanks twice and use rest areas if we can coming to home plate.

windtrader · October 22, 2021, 08:37:24 PM

IBC TOtes - hillybilly hot tub!

luvrbus · October 22, 2021, 09:16:26 PM

Add tank flush to each tank you can buy the kits or make your own, they are great to breakup the paper and solids in the black tank and food partials in the gray tank to keep the smell down and they are priceless when you have keys in your shirt pocket and down the toilet they go

don't ask how I know that,they are nice to have

Jim Blackwood · October 23, 2021, 09:16:10 AM

I'm thinking a bilge fan for a boat inline in the roof vent will be a handy accessory, wired to come on with the restroom light. But also a second low level vent so that convection heating can keep air moving through the tank under average conditions.

Here's the thing though, the stinky gasses are heavier than air and tend to accumulate in the roof vent line like a stand pipe. Then when you open the toilet flush valve they rush back down the vent pipe and up out of the toilet. So the key is to not let them stack up in the vertical vent.

Using convection to move the gasses up may not be enough and they may escape out the lower vent, but the presence of fresh oxygen will keep them from being created in the first place.

Jim

buswarrior · October 23, 2021, 09:40:50 AM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on October 23, 2021, 09:16:10 AM
......but the presence of fresh oxygen will keep them from being created in the first place.

Jim

Full stop, nothing else required. 2 decent sized vents, nothing else required.

In line fans obstruct natural air movement, introduce unneccesary complexity.

Keep the toll window closed when flushing at speed... nothing can defend against that suction...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

Bustle · October 23, 2021, 09:46:46 AM

I know you guys had many discussions here on this topic about venting. I personally haven't given much thought to venting yet... but one thing is for sure, your vent needs to be higher than the toilet bowl... 60mm fan can pull 12 CFM of air. It's plenty airflow going through 1.5"-2" pipe. If you are pulling air out, you also don't want any negative pressure in the tank either, so you need an air inlet. Traditional RV tanks only have 1 inlet/outlet. However, different school of thoughts on this. Do you aerate your tank or not? (rhetorical) I think they are called holding tanks, and not septic tanks for a reason. The "inlet/outlet" is not there to vent, but to let gases escape when you put content in the tank, otherwise, you'd get burping back into the coach. While a fan sounds like a great idea, it could be bad idea, as you would be aerating bacteria, and promoting faster decomposition of your tank content. There is a reason why they put formaldehyde in those black tank treatment/odor reducers.

I believe we will get zero smell coming out of the toilet with the macerator toilet I posted, unless there is a defect in the toilet. It's going to be impossible for tank air to escape out of the water trap it has self contained.

Downside? $600 for the plastic throne, and 12v/24v...

buswarrior · October 23, 2021, 11:01:39 AM

You've got it backwards...

Formaldehyde was put into toilet chemicals, toilet chemicals were invented, because the RV industry won't build a proper holding tank, to save a few $$ in manufacturing.

Similar for the marine folks, who have the added challenge of not being able to completely drain their tanks with the pump-out.

Smelly bacteria thrive in low oxygen, the good bacteria, that accomplish things, need fresh air. The smelly bacteria do NOT thrive in fresh air. Make the air in the tank fresh, no bad bacteria will thrive to stink.

This is a topic where going with the masses, gets you the same smelly results.

Dare to put in a pair of inch and a half vents, enjoy the absence of stink?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

luvrbus · October 23, 2021, 11:55:41 AM

Quote from: Bustle on October 23, 2021, 09:46:46 AM
I know you guys had many discussions here on this topic about venting. I personally haven't given much thought to venting yet... but one thing is for sure, your vent needs to be higher than the toilet bowl... 60mm fan can pull 12 CFM of air. It's plenty airflow going through 1.5"-2" pipe. If you are pulling air out, you also don't want any negative pressure in the tank either, so you need an air inlet. Traditional RV tanks only have 1 inlet/outlet. However, different school of thoughts on this. Do you aerate your tank or not? (rhetorical) I think they are called holding tanks, and not septic tanks for a reason. The "inlet/outlet" is not there to vent, but to let gases escape when you put content in the tank, otherwise, you'd get burping back into the coach. While a fan sounds like a great idea, it could be bad idea, as you would be aerating bacteria, and promoting faster decomposition of your tank content. There is a reason why they put formaldehyde in those black tank treatment/odor reducers.

I believe we will get zero smell coming out of the toilet with the macerator toilet I posted, unless there is a defect in the toilet. It's going to be impossible for tank air to escape out of the water trap it has self contained.

Downside? $600 for the plastic throne, and 12v/24v...

$600 they must make different models of the Temca or I really got screwed, I ordered one for my sons RV that sucker was over $2500.00 for his replacement Thetford with shipping

Tedsoldbus · October 23, 2021, 05:53:15 PM

And at the end of all the fans, chemicals, and latest no latest no stink gadgets, before you winterize - fill tanks with water and 1/2 gallon of ZEP Orange degreaser. Wait 2 days, drain, say a little prayer, and you will be ready for spring!

Jim Blackwood · October 24, 2021, 10:20:07 AM

Way too much misinformation about this. If you know the facts it's pretty easy. Municipal sewers are not particularly stinky. Why? because there is air in them.

I haven't checked but it is likely that the gases created by aerobic breakdown are just your average atmospheric gasses for the most part, heavy in carbon dioxide. So if there is ANY airflow through the tank they will waft away in the breeze, which will keep oxygen available. Cut back to one vent only and you insure stagnation of the air, depletion of the oxygen, and the onset of anaerobic breakdown and the creation of heavier compound molecule stinky gasses that are harder to vent out the roof. All of which leads to odors in and around the RV.

So do yourself and those around you a favor. Plan and arrange your vent lines to promote natural airflow through your waste tanks. There are many ways to do this and a fan isn't necessarily the best approach, although it could be helpful. Bear in mind that the stinky gasses are corrosive whereas the ones produced by aerobic breakdown are less so. The packaging of a bilge fan makes it easy to plumb into a vent line using standard fittings and the larger than line diameter and design of the fan blades will be no impediment to airflow when not running. Also bilge fans are typically more resistant to corrosion. So it makes a handy supplement that is easily installed in a vent line and is going to be pretty durable. Connected to the bathroom light, it will cycle whenever someone is in the bathroom, which is often enough to keep fresh air in the waste tanks, even if the vent lines are a little contorted or undersized.

Now how do you get natural circulation? First, at least two reasonable sized vent lines of say 1-1/2 or 2" diameter. Next run them to different outlet locations to help the air flow through. You could run one high and one low and rely on heating or cooling of the air in the lines to cause convection flow. You could put one on each side of the bus with a directional outlet meant to take advantage of any breeze. You could use one of those devices that go on the end that is supposed to convert any passing breeze into suction. Generally each of those will work some of the time, and some of the time may be good enough. A separate vent system for each tank would probably be best, as the quality of the discharge from the vent system (and there WILL be a discharge) will depend entirely on the volume of the flow.

Jim

luvrbus · October 24, 2021, 10:54:42 AM

Treatment plants use the digester system there is no Oxygen or air present to do the bio break down then they use the bio gas to complete the process,that process would be tough to do on a bus

Jim Blackwood · October 24, 2021, 11:12:47 AM

The treatment plant is a Looong way from the municipal sewers. And even those do use aeration to introduce oxygen into the effluent. Those Rotator things you sometimes see churning up the water.

Now on the subject of aeration, it seems to me that is adding an unnecessary level of complexity where none is really needed. I'm sure it could help, but it could also turn into a maintenance nightmare. These liquids are considerably more corrosive than simple water, and you also add the potential for clogging and obstructions. Plus they would tend to make noise and use energy.

Jim