Yet another battery thread

[Jim Blackwood]

Yep, it looks like my 8Ds have bit the dust. I see new one cost about $250 each. I have some questions.

First off, on the Series 60 how much is the amperage draw during starting?

Next, is a pair of deep cycle batteries going to be adequate for starting?

Next, will the deep cycle batteries last longer?

Also who makes the best battery for the money in terms of battery life?

Any recommended vendors that might be close by? Like Tire Discounters for Interstate Batteries for example?

I see that Rural King has a CFT8D-3 battery for $144.99, would this battery be a good choice?

Jim

[Utahclaimjumper]

 Deep cycle batteries are not good for starting batteries,, and starting batteries are not good for house batteries that do better with deep cycle types..>>>Dan

[dtcerrato]

@Jim
Hands down the battery I'm about to suggest to you is the best we have experienced in our 42 years of same bus ownership and many many 8D replacements. Would also like to say - at least in the WLA group, not all batteries are created equal not even if it is the same battery manufacturer sold under different retailers.
Any way we just replaced a pair of NAPA 8D Hybrid batteries. Hybrid batteries will take the abuse of starting and deep cycle discharges & charges. The last pair I got 7 years out of them and didn't start TLCing them until a couple years into their life cycle. With the state of the art four stage smart charging I'm shooting for 10 years on the current ones.
Engine start batteries are Napa 8D # 8276 X two with a 10% sale discount was $460 w/tx total

Our house bank batteries are Napa group 31 X five with a 10% sale discount were $760 w/tx total

Grand total $1220 which would have bought one lithium - we can't go there.

Our house bank & start batteries are totally compatible with each other and with the use of Blue Sea Marine RBSs can switch between or combine all for start or house bank (inverter).
That's my take & set up fwiw.

[buswarrior]

The start/deep cycle debate is valid at small capacities, do't get them mixed up.

However, a typical larger house bank of deep cycles will start the bus just fine, without any worry.

Be bold, just make a single bank, simplify your charging, and with a combination of smart equipment, and your own vigilance, just save the money and hassle of 2 different banks to take care of?

Dead battery is punishment for not managing correctly?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[lostagain]

In my former MC5, now sold, I replaced the start batteries with deep cycle ones, and combined them with the house bank, to form a single bank of 8 golf cart batteries. Works good. I always preheat the engine on a cold day, so it starts easy, and doesn't take much out of the batteries anyway. To support such a system, you need to keep the batteries up with solar panels and a good reliable generator if you are not plugged in to shore.

[Jim Blackwood]

OK, I ordered the two NAPA batteries and will pick them up tomorrow. There was a 20% promo so that was about $200 ea. plus the core charge which I'll get back. Also had to buy the terminal converters of course. another 8 bucks, and then about $40 in tax (seems excessive somehow but we gotta pay that "protection" money, and I gotta say it's far better than having a local war). Pick-up tomorrow, 15 mile hike, could be worse.

Now I really should upgrade my maintenance. Two things come to mind. First at least some form of rudimentary charger to maintain them at the optimum voltage and not overcharge, and somewhere I saw a reference to an automatic electrolyte level device. Anybody familiar with that?

I know the charger is a hot topic. I have a bunch of chargers. An Everest & Jennings 24v but the only automatic function is a shutdown and then it doesn't reawaken on voltage drop so of limited help. A Ruski 24v that seemed to be doing well until it burned up and let the batteries discharge, Didn't really seem up to the job. Several 12v chargers of various capacities but all manual and one automated HF 12v starter/charger that should be fine for one battery but not both. It seems the simplest effective solution would be to buy a second HF unit, of course they are too large to locate on the bus easily. Not currently willing to spend more on the battery minders than I spent on the batteries so what suggestions? Thx

Jim

[TomC]

I would have 3-size 31 batteries to start (depending on what voltage you have-if 24v then 4-31's) then for house batteries 2 or 3 8D AGM batteries. Good Luck, TomC

[kyle4501]

Most smart battery chargers aren't smart enough for a 8D (230 amp hours).

I really like the 'noco genius 10' -- If there is a better one, I haven't used it.
I got 2 of them & have to isolate each battery while using them.

They brought a couple of group 31 that were at 1.5V back to fully functional.

[buswarrior]

I also love the noco genius line of smart charger/maintainers.

Long, long life for the lawn mower batteries kept on them between uses.

The coach will get its own set for redundant use.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Jim Blackwood]

I just looked at those, and the least expensive ones that charge 24v were over $500. Can't really justify that right now. The HF unit to match the one I already have would be $150 so it's going to cost something regardless of how I handle it. What do you guys think of this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303477514107?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28 

Jim

[chessie4905]

All these chargers put out great numbers for charging, but once checking details, down to 40 to 60 amps charge.

[RJ]

I just looked at those, and the least expensive ones that charge 24v were over $500.

Jim -

My coach has four Group 31 start batteries, and four 8D deep-cycle house batteries.

The house batteries are kept up using the inverters or genset, depending on whether or not I'm plugged in to shore power.

When parked for any length of time, I have two Noco Genius 2x2 chargers that I'm extremely pleased with. For best results, since my start batteries are wired for 24vdc, I completely disconnect all four batteries, then hook up the charging leads individually and just let them do their thing. No complaints in two years of operation. Here's a link to their website: https://no.co/genius2x2

Now, if I was to do it again, I would pick up one of the new Noco Genius 2x4 units, a single charger than can handle four batteries at once, that's also reasonably priced at just under $200. https://no.co/genius2x4

I realize that both of these models are only 2 amps per leg, but since their primary usage in my case is to maintain the batteries over a month or more while stationary, they're perfect for my application. I also realize that for some folk, having to disconnect all four batteries when parked, then having to reconnect them again when getting ready to roll, will be considered a PITA, but I just look at that as a minor inconvenience compared to the cost of replacing the start batteries more frequently, plus being able to have them fully charged so as to prevent a "no start" dead battery situation for me is not an inconvenience. 

(BTW, my start batteries are NAPA Commercials, #7234.)

FWIW & HTH. . .

[Jim Blackwood]

I really appreciate the advice given thus far. Also, I have tried to keep up with the threads that talked about inverters and it seems that word is used to encompass much more than converting 24vdc to 115vac. But since I am not running solar nor have any immediate plans to do so it seems they might not be suitable for my needs. (I have a surplus of 900w inverters since 9 came with the bus. They will not charge the batteries, but they will power pretty much all of my 115v needs otherwise.)

At present I have no house batteries and this will not change until the RV is ready to roll. No point in investing in batteries and tires if they are just going to sit there.

I'd prefer to avoid decoupling the batteries aside from the disconnect switch which is what makes the Stark booster/charger above attractive since it will charge a 24v bank. Agreed it is unlikely to meet the claimed 300A starting current. Indeed the rated charging current at 24v is 35A. But that should be enough I would think. What I like about it is the ability to "maintain batteries indefinitely" controlled by the microprocessor, so presumably unlike the Everett & Jennings after the batteries are charged it won't just shut down and turn off. I think this "feature" was responsible for the early demise of my Exide batteries after just 5 years of light service. And I'm pretty sure I can find enough space for the Stark to make it a permanent part of the rig. If it works as it should I should never have any need to use it's max charging capacity.

My system does seem to have a parasitic loss on the 12v side and I haven't begun to rewire the power system yet. When I do I will include a disconnect for the Vanner center-tap at the very least, but I don't know if that will be enough. I had hoped to put off the rewiring and searching out the parasitic losses until later but it seems I'm paying for that procrastination.

Jim

[buswarrior]

Not sure why batteries are being disconnected to put 12 volt chargers on?

Just hook 'em up and job is done?

I wouldn't buy a 24 volt charger for maintenance purposes, 2 reasons: won't correct imbalance, smart parts can't massage a problem cell as easily, or at all,  and 24 volts is useless for anything other than the bus.

These chargers move around at my place, cars, mowers, generators, all need some time on these good chargers, and i am not buying one for each...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[dtcerrato]

Ditto plus battery disconnects are convenient...

Not sure why batteries are being disconnected to put 12 volt chargers on?

Just hook 'em up and job is done?

I wouldn't buy a 24 volt charger for maintenance purposes, 2 reasons: won't correct imbalance, smart parts can't massage a problem cell as easily, or at all,  and 24 volts is useless for anything other than the bus.

These chargers move around at my place, cars, mowers, generators, all need some time on these good chargers, and i am not buying one for each...

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior