Mountains

[chessie4905]

Went over Wolf Creek pass today. Wow! Glad I wasn't  in the coach. Thats some climb. About 10,500 feet at summit. The downhill would benefit from jakebrakes for sure.

[windtrader]

Yeah, we I drove my bus home from Denver. Even 70 was scary so I played safe, went north and caught the 80 west to CA. Those hills do get a bit tall, lol

[luvrbus]

8v71's N/A without turbos you can here those saying "I think I can,I think I can" with the black smoke rolling,we have friends their MCI 7 with a 8v71 N/A he just runs out of power on Wolf Creek and turns around you see that often.Mount Evans really separates the men from boys in Co   

[windtrader]

Clifford - any guidelines on altitude and grade? Would be wonderful to have a table for an MCI with an 8V71 na showing limits.  Maybe there is a simple rule like at sea level an 8v71na can take a x % grade then at 1000, 2000, etc, the grade it can get over goes down.


It would be pretty to find a percent power loss for every 1000 up but then translate that into speed or grade reductions.

[niles500]

Mt. Evans is limited to 25 or 30 foot length above the lake, but I've done it with a 35 footer with the frame dragging on the switchbacks, not a big parking area at the top if it's crowded

[dtcerrato]

We've had our 4104 with NA 671 MT on top of everything including CN & AK since 1979 no Jakes - it's invigorating!

[luvrbus]

Mt. Evans is limited to 25 or 30 foot length above the lake, but I've done it with a 35 footer with the frame dragging on the switchbacks, not a big parking area at the top if it's crowded

I did it in our MCI 5 not a good experience at all

[windtrader]

it's invigorating!

Dan, Is that your way of saying. "Thank god we survived!"
lol

[luvrbus]

We've had our 4104 with NA 671 MT on top of everything including CN & AK since 1979 no Jakes - it's invigorating!

It is out there Dan you just haven't found it yet.N/A diesels the power drops like rock with altitude ,you can really see it on diesel N/A generators .The military sold off all their N/A Humvees they found out they were useless in the middle east   

[pabusnut]

Clifford,

The military didn't sell off all the N/A Hummers primarily because of the N/A engine (and they didn't sell off all the N/A versions yet -- I know where there are lots and lots of them)

They were "useless" in the middle east because: 1) the makeshift armor added to them added so much weight that they were top heavy.  2) The makeshift armor didn't do squat to protect the occupants from an IED UNDER the vehicle. 3) The UP-ARMORED versions built(or retrofitted) by the Army Depots needed more OOMPH to push the 16 K lb + weight than the anemic 6.2 GM N/A could provide.  4) You train like you fight.  Now the new standard is Armored Vehicles for "outside the wire"  We are on our 3rd generation of MRAPS that I know of.

[luvrbus]

Clifford,

The military didn't sell off all the N/A Hummers primarily because of the N/A engine (and they didn't sell off all the N/A versions yet -- I know where there are lots and lots of them)

They were "useless" in the middle east because: 1) the makeshift armor added to them added so much weight that they were top heavy.  2) The makeshift armor didn't do squat to protect the occupants from an IED UNDER the vehicle. 3) The UP-ARMORED versions built(or retrofitted) by the Army Depots needed more OOMPH to push the 16 K lb + weight than the anemic 6.2 GM N/A could provide.  4) You train like you fight.  Now the new standard is Armored Vehicles for "outside the wire"  We are on our 3rd generation of MRAPS that I know of.

I know were  there are 1500  Humvees with the 6.2 for sale acres of Humvees at the marine base I bought a new 6.2 there for 1 of my Humvees there ,cannot understand the waste paying 88 grand for Humvees and selling it for 10 grand when you could upgrade the engine for 5 grand,such a waste.Some Humvees made in the 90's have less than 3000  total miles. Now they are into emissions doing away with trucks that cost the tax payer a 1/2 million bucks.Sicking to see the 2008 models Humvees selling for pennies
   

[pabusnut]

Clifford,

I know more about DOD and wasteful spending than I care to admit.  Even our "off road engines" must be CARB compliant now thanks to the EnviroNazis.  When I was in Afghanistan the last time(2014) wearing the uniform, I saw literally hundreds of perfectly good MRAPS cut up because "they are too expensive to ship back home"!!!

Defense spending is about "good jobs in my district" and nothing more.  It doesn't matter whether it meets the operational requirement of the Military Services or not.  And it doesn't matter which "side of the aisle" they sit on.

[luvrbus]

Clifford,

I know more about DOD and wasteful spending than I care to admit.  Even our "off road engines" must be CARB compliant now thanks to the EnviroNazis.  When I was in Afghanistan the last time(2014) wearing the uniform, I saw literally hundreds of perfectly good MRAPS cut up because "they are too expensive to ship back home"!!!

Defense spending is about "good jobs in my district" and nothing more.  It doesn't matter whether it meets the operational requirement of the Military Services or not.  And it doesn't matter which "side of the aisle" they sit on.

My neighbor is a retired captain from the military and he tells me when you budget if the money is not spent then they take it out of the next budget and you never got the money anyways or something like that is that true.LOL you pays the shipping on 150 Humvees goes to South America ?   

[Iceni John]

Clifford - any guidelines on altitude and grade? Would be wonderful to have a table for an MCI with an 8V71 na showing limits.  Maybe there is a simple rule like at sea level an 8v71na can take a x % grade then at 1000, 2000, etc, the grade it can get over goes down.


It would be pretty to find a percent power loss for every 1000 up but then translate that into speed or grade reductions.

Isn't there a simple number of how much atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude?   3%, 4% ?   I don't know exactly how much.   Wouldn't the oxygen content also decrease similarly, therefore making the engine's power output decrease the same?   Or am I missing something here?!

When the first non-turbo EMD 567 locomotives engines were used in the mountains, there were big problems at altitude keeping the trains moving.

John

[Ed Hackenbruch]

For every 1000 ft. of elevation you lose about 3% of air which also means you lose about 3% of your power.