4104 side windows seals

bobrl · June 11, 2021, 11:32:47 AM

Hello bcm. I own a 1958 4104 and i am trying to replace the side window frames rubber seals. Bought all new rubber seals from Luke at US coach and i am having issues!! I install the seal and when i push the frame into bus body , then the sliders wont move!!!! Awwww. Any one on here have or had this problem?? Please help!!! Spoke to Luck so many times on this, he said he sells these seals for all 4104s. I am at a loss!!! Thanks.

dtcerrato · June 11, 2021, 05:15:17 PM

Can you offer more detail? Is it just the outside perimeter frame weatherstripping that you replaced? How about the felt that the slider frames slide on - replaced also? Do the sliders operate freely when the main window frame is open (out of the bus body) then tighten up when closed? Were you able to compare the profile & protrusion of what came out to what went in? There are a few bus nuts that have successfully restored 4104 slider weather strip & felts from Luke. With more detail we could make better observation.

bobrl · June 12, 2021, 05:42:09 AM

Morning. I have only worked on one window so far! There is no old rubber seals on any window, they must have removed them years ago!! There is just black caulk! Yes i replaced the felt as well. Used a large washer and rolled it in the felt channel ,just as Luke and Bill said to do! Yes the sliders work great when frame is hanging on hinges and brace is in place , when i force (yes i have to force ) the frame into the body is when the windows wont slide!! Stuck. I tryed to post a couple pictures, but seems that is not working ! Thanks. Bob

dtcerrato · June 12, 2021, 06:29:56 AM

I assume what you're holding in your hand is the replacement perimeter weatherstrip?
When pushing the whole window assembly back into its opening it should be snug but really not have to be forced. Are the channels that the new weatherstrip and felt going into absolutely clean & void of any old material? It's a weird telltale that the bus didn't have any weatherstrip - wonder if the po had similar problems? If I were in your situation I would trim some height off the piece in your hand - I know it sounds like a pita but that's the culprit that's making the whole fit tight from your word "force" unless the felts are causing it. It's good you're going after the one window. I'll follow your post closely as I'm about to perform slider weather strip restoration on our 4104. Please continue with your updates on your progress, tia. Dan

bobrl · June 12, 2021, 06:56:44 AM

I removed the glass sliders and removed the old felt(metal impregnated) and power washed the channel and scrapped all trash out!!! Then installed the new felt(not made like old, what is! ) and rolled a big washer in the felt installed! Same with the frame, power washed the channels and scraped !! Have tried so many times now to install and it is always the same!! Pictures r of frame pushed shut with out glass sliders ! Thanks

dtcerrato · June 12, 2021, 07:14:31 AM

bobrl
good photo, the perimeter weatherstripping in that photo is too much... as in too tight. It needs to be cut down. In my mind a diy jig that will trim the base should be considered. I will reach out to a 4104 bus nut that did his 4104 windows with material from Luke and report back to you. You'll get this, sounds like you have perseverance, a prerequisite to vintage bus ownership...

dtcerrato · June 12, 2021, 11:23:46 AM

bobrl
I had a chat with Chazmon3 who frequented these bus forums before he sold his 4104. He restored all the weather strip on his large side sliders on his 4104 with material from Luke like you're doing. He mentioned two things directly relating to your issue:
1) The felt inserts for the sliders he had to muscle them as hard as he could down into the aluminum with the handle of a pliers and go back & forth and said he gained a little each pass until he was certain they were fully seated all the way and talked like the "pile" of the felt needed to be pressed down hard to get them properly installed. I would use a good metal screen spline tool to get good leverage and lots of point loaded pressure.
2) The perimeter molded piece in your photo doesn't just lay into the aluminum extrusion but actually part of the base on that molded shape has to literally be inserted into the bottom in a way that it doesn't just sit on it.
He did all his sliders and one was still a little tight but the rest operated easily.
He said when you close the large frame to the bus body it's a snug fit but shouldn't have to be forced hard.
Hope this helps & please keep us posted.

bobrl · June 12, 2021, 11:46:16 AM

Hello! Thanks for your help and concern!! I asked Luke if i could get a phone number from some people that bought the seals , he declined. I told him it has to be a issues with using this seal on the 4104 ! He says no!!! Spent alot of money for a seal that i have to cut down in size and then still not work. That is so unfair !!!!

bobrl · June 12, 2021, 02:50:05 PM

Today i did every thing that Luke and Bill told me to do and the rubber seal is just too large to allow the frame to close properly and the slider on the outside track is very tight. I also purchased new oem window locks from Luke and they cant hold the window frame shut, because of the pressure of the too large seals!!! I am ready to send the rubber seals back to luke and hopefully get a full refund !! Dont know what elese to do!😩thanks.

dtcerrato · June 12, 2021, 04:56:56 PM

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate unresolved issue. I will ask for a small sample of both the weatherstrip & felt prior to placing an order. I'm curious if Luke's supplier changed since Chazmon3's purchase or maybe Luke's supplier changed the material that he was procuring? At any rate I hope Luke makes it right for you as he is revered by many bus nuts. Please keep us posted of your progress as I am involved in your lead with the same but yet to happen to do window project. Tia. Dan

bobrl · June 12, 2021, 06:01:11 PM

Ok. Thank you. I like Luke. Like doing business with him!!

bobrl · June 12, 2021, 08:19:44 PM

Ok. Thank you. I like Luke. Like doing business with him!!

dtcerrato · June 13, 2021, 04:25:19 AM

Are you going to stay with the felt inserts?

bobrl · June 13, 2021, 05:35:58 AM

Yes i will keep the felt ! I guess i will just re caulk the frames .dont know what else to do. Thanks

dtcerrato · June 22, 2021, 07:24:26 AM

Quote from: bobrl on June 13, 2021, 05:35:58 AM
Yes i will keep the felt ! I guess i will just re caulk the frames .dont know what else to do. Thanks

Bobrl
Check out these videos! They are the answer to your issue. Don't return the weatherstripping as you have the best chance of doing the replacement correctly with what you have in hand from US coach!

A quote from Jon Usle on the BNO forum"
Jon also responded to your post directly on BNO...

"On another note do you watch YouTube? A fellow 4104 owner by the name of Bert Conoly he did a video one replacing his windows in a video on April 17, 2020. He goes into a lot of detail with his show and tell.

Siberyd"

Thank you Jon as there are currently several of us 4104 owners doing this weather strip upgrade!