Installing an Electronic Series 60 in '74 MCI

Glennman · May 12, 2021, 12:49:20 PM

I see a lot of posts that mention their Series 60 engine installed in various buses (older MCI's, Eagles, etc.).

How practical is it to install one in a '74 MC-8. When I say practical, I do not mean how cheap would it be. I am up for it financially, but is this even a possibility? It sure would be a nice ride!

Dave5Cs · May 12, 2021, 02:18:37 PM

You will lose all the storage space under the bed for one.

luvrbus · May 12, 2021, 02:39:47 PM

The series 50 install is not as involved as the series 60 most mci's up to the D series and some C's with a series 60 have been lengthen in the rear to accommodate the long series 60 engine

6805eagleguy · May 12, 2021, 04:58:57 PM

As Clifford stated, I believe that mcis have to be lengthened for the s60 to fit. On mine the crankshaft pulley sits 1/4" from the rear bumper, and I have a 22" drive shaft.

Probably have 14k plus time invested into my swap, but remember that all labor was done by me.

Glennman · May 13, 2021, 01:12:26 PM

Lengthen the bus? Sounds impractical. In looking at my D Series, without measuring it, it does appear to be awfully long back there in the engine compartment. I know that Eagles are given to lengthening and widening. I'm just considering my options (fix the D Series bus with the electrical problem, or take its engine out and install in my '74). I just got a commitment from the 12 western state MCI guy to look at D Series on May 20th. Then I have a diesel mechanic coming on the following weekend (he was scheduled first). Hopefully I will have a plan of attack by the time they all look at it. Oh, the peril of owning 2 buses...

Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM · May 13, 2021, 04:14:52 PM

Depends also if the bus is already converted. As Clifford will tell you, you can buy nice MCI buses all day for less than $10,000 with Series 60 engines in them and many have the World transmission.

If your bus is already converted and is in good shape and you are in love with it, then that is another story.

Jim Blackwood · May 13, 2021, 04:34:00 PM

Such are the perils of too much electronics in the bus. Sure, some guys thoroughly understand that stuff but they are specialists. And sure as long as it's working right it'll be fine. But here's yet another horror story about what happens when it isn't fine. Fortunately the bus was at home. I hate to think if it was on the road.

What this tells me is that there is going to be a span of years when the MCI is essentially valueless on the used market. I would expect to see a lot of those scrapped out just because there was nobody around with the skills to fix it. It's a big part of the reason that I bought a '96.

I hope this isn't the case with yours, but it sounds like you are getting uncomfortably close.

Would it be possible to retrofit a DDEC-3 control system? I'd guess so, but how much trouble would it be? If the rest of the bus's multiplex system works but it just won't run, would that even be a possibility? It would seem that if you can swap a S-60 into about anything then maybe that's the control system that is being used? Not that I would know, just guessing here.

Jim

luvrbus · May 13, 2021, 04:58:30 PM

Bernie at Bernhard Bus has done a couple with series 60 check his web site it will have a video and Bruce here on this board added 2 feet to his MCI to stuff a Cummins in it

6805eagleguy · May 14, 2021, 09:56:18 AM

I just realized its a 2002 s60 so you also have some undesirables there, egr, etc.

Van · May 14, 2021, 11:34:17 AM

Quote from: Glennman on May 13, 2021, 01:12:26 PM
Lengthen the bus? Sounds impractical. In looking at my D Series, without measuring it, it does appear to be awfully long back there in the engine compartment. I know that Eagles are given to lengthening and widening. I'm just considering my options (fix the D Series bus with the electrical problem, or take its engine out and install in my '74). I just got a commitment from the 12 western state MCI guy to look at D Series on May 20th. Then I have a diesel mechanic coming on the following weekend (he was scheduled first). Hopefully I will have a plan of attack by the time they all look at it. Oh, the peril of owning 2 buses...

Sent you a PM

modernbeat · May 14, 2021, 04:18:53 PM

Is there a reason you're considering a Series 60 rather than some other engine other than people talk about them?
If you're willing to look at electronic engines, there are a number that would fit.
A good one that could fit is the Cummins ISC. More power, less weight, better mileage.

Jim Blackwood · May 14, 2021, 05:16:32 PM

Glen, I've been talking to my brother (Andy, Peterbilt owner/operator) and he seems pretty familiar with the DDEC controllers. A couple of things he pointed out to me might help you. First off, according to him the engine will run without the datalink plug connected. That's the center 6 pin connector on one end of the module. That link is used for the transmission control and isn't used with the manual transmissions. So you wouldn't be able to drive with it unhooked but it shouldn't keep the engine from running. Might help in troubleshooting. There is an "ignition" wire in that plug but he thinks that was for the natural gas engines which need a spark.

The five pin connector with the big wires is the power connection. It should have 3 black wires and two red ones. The red ones need to be hot with no less than 10.5v to start and run. Normal requirement is 12v but he says he's been able to start with 10.5, the black leads should be ground.

Then the big connectors are one for the engine and the other for the vehicle. On the vehicle connector there should be one pin that goes hot when the main switch on the dash is turned on during start-up.

The two other small connectors each power 3 injectors. Two ground wires and 3 injector wires in each one.

It sounds like that is all that is needed for the engine to start. It may be that the datalink can interfere via interlocks but if it isn't plugged up it wouldn't be able to.

Anyway that gives you a few things you could try. Might help, might not but if it was me I think I'd check it out.

Jim

luvrbus · May 14, 2021, 05:34:13 PM

It only takes 2 wires to start a DDEC a supply and ground ,and start is the only thing it will do,getting it started is easy part of him sticking a series 60 in a MCI 8 there is no room even a turbo is remote mounted on the side, the engine compartment size is the same as the MCI 5 except the engine is not on a angle

Jim Blackwood · May 14, 2021, 07:24:25 PM

I'm just trying to help him get his '02 running. Unless I'm mistaken it's only because of his troubles there that he is thinking about the engine swap.

Jim