Landing gear

[thomasinnv]

My HWH Active Air system if the excessive slope light is on it won't even work manually or automatic

Not even if you power down and then power back up in manual mode?

On my system it will still work in auto or manual with excess slope light on, it just obviously won't achieve level, the auto will time out after a few minutes. The excess frame twist sensors however cannot be over ridden in any mode but I can't see where that would be a good idea anyway. Don't need windshields popping out.

[Jim Blackwood]

I think that's one advantage of the tripod setup, you never have to worry about frame twist as long as you run down the front jack first. The only limits I'll have on this system is maybe a switch for the full up position and at least initially it'll be full manual.

Actually to begin with I'll crank them manually until I get the gearmotor sorted out. I have one I can fit up to test that has a 1/2 hp motor and 100:1 gearbox and see how that works. Depending on the results I can then decide what to order.

Jim

[luvrbus]

Not even if you power down and then power back up in manual mode?

On my system it will still work in auto or manual with excess slope light on, it just obviously won't achieve level, the auto will time out after a few minutes. The excess frame twist sensors however cannot be over ridden in any mode but I can't see where that would be a good idea anyway. Don't need windshields popping out.

Nope the Active Air controls the suspension too not just the leveling, a nice system but will cost a fortune to repair or replace when the time comes I bet   

[hogi6123]

Yes and no. There are only three height valves, but there are wheels at all four corners.

The two rear valves control the side-to-side height adjustment, and the front valve control the up/down of the nose. But, the front does not have a separate side-to-side control from the rear.

That sounds like what I was trying to describe.  The air diagram (for the mc-9) shows the front leveling valve output teed to both left and right air bags.  That would mean the air transfers between the front left and right bags depending on ground contour and rear axle roll.  The net effect is to act like a tripod.

[thomasinnv]

Nope the Active Air controls the suspension too not just the leveling, a nice system but will cost a fortune to repair or replace when the time comes I bet   

Cliff if you ever end up looking in the face of a major repair on that system you might consider Valid Manufacturing, they are in BC Canada. I purchased my complete system from them and installed it myself. They were about 1/3 the cost of the HWH system. FYI, the first powergear air levelling systems were actually Valid MFG with powergears name on it. They been in the business for a long time.

[luvrbus]

Cliff if you ever end up looking in the face of a major repair on that system you might consider Valid Manufacturing, they are in BC Canada. I purchased my complete system from them and installed it myself. They were about 1/3 the cost of the HWH system. FYI, the first powergear air levelling systems were actually Valid MFG with powergears name on it. They been in the business for a long time.

I read on the Country Coach forum folks having Active Air installed on older models coaches was costing them $10,000.00 plus at the HWH factory,I have a spare Active Air I bought for my MCI D from the sale at CC wasn't that pricey ($750.00) if it's all there   

[Jim Blackwood]

$750 would be a heck of a bargain. I spent about $925 on the three landing gear and will probably spend more than that on the gearmotors to drive them. (Note however that I got exactly what I wanted and brand new as opposed to what you might find as used or surplus parts.) The steel for the mounts is likely to cost over $250, and then there is the controls and the wiring plus all the fabrication. So realistically, doing a system like this yourself it can be done for somewhere between $2k and $3k which is really very reasonable for what you get and should be an extremely reliable and dependable system. $10k sounds like an awful lot, but for that money you are getting a well engineered and proven system with sophisticated electronic controls fully installed, right? No thinking involved, just write a check. The cost of that kind of convenience is not insignificant.

I do like the serenity of never having to think about hydraulics or air. But there is another hidden cost: Either the expense of DC gearmotors to drive the jacks or inverters to drive AC motors. Happily I have a surplus of 900 watt inverters which will work fine as long as I stay under 1/2hp on the motors. There is some switching required which will mean additional hardware. One option is to use 3 phase motors which tend to be cheap and available along with VFD controllers which can be had for about $50 each these days and those generally have external inputs for direction and speed, as well as the ability to overdrive for rapid extension and retraction. Well the cost of relays to do the job wouldn't be much less than that and much less versatile. So for me that's a very realistic option. Otherwise I'd be pounding the bushes to find suitable DC motors and relays.

Jim

[thomasinnv]

I don't have my paperwork in front of me but I believe my Valid system was somewhere around 3k delivered to my door. Came with everything needed, all cabling and sensors, valve manifolds, auxiliary compressor with tank, even had all the airlines and fittings. The system retains the factory levelling valves setup for use while motivating.

[Jim Blackwood]

No doubt that's a good system. It sounds about like what I was working towards before I decided to go with the landing gear.

But I've never been particularly lucky with air systems. My shop air always leaks down, for instance and it's a constant ordeal to find and fix the leaks. My air suspension I designed for my sports car is the same. It regularly develops some small leak somewhere that takes days or months to find. As complex as the bus air system is, why should it be any different? So I went back to that basic question: For a system that absolutely has to stay in a fixed position for days or weeks at a time why would I want to depend on a fluid, either air or hydraulic, that can leak out? The answer obviously enough was that I should not. And I've had long experience with hydraulics as well, and yes when they are new they generally don't leak down. Generally. They are expensive and difficult when they do, and it isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. I expect this bus to last 30 years. I don't need to be installing systems that I know will have to be rebuilt.

So a mechanical system it is. And of all the jacks available the landing gear just immediately made sense. It's designed for a very similar application. It's overbuilt. It's affordable. It comes with an omnidirectional cushioned pad. It has a 10 x10" foot. It has surplus travel. It's easily mounted, and it's electrically controlled or can be manually operated. Replacements are available everywhere. Honestly if it wasn't for the convenience factor I would certainly consider simple manual operation and may do that anyway at least short term. After all, semi drivers have no problem with them. A simple angle bracket made of heavy angle iron is all that is really required to mount them and that would point the shaft towards the side of the bus where you could have a socket to accept the handle. I'm not doing mine that way for several reasons but it'd be the cheap and solid option.

Jim

[Ed Hackenbruch]

If i needed to level more than using my air bags. (seperate valve for each one), i made a set of short ramps using 4x4s bolted together.....used to level the bus, change a tire, never wore out, never broke, total cost about 20 bucks. 

[dtcerrato]

What Ed said

[Iceni John]

So a mechanical system it is. And of all the jacks available the landing gear just immediately made sense. It's designed for a very similar application. It's overbuilt. It's affordable. It comes with an omnidirectional cushioned pad. It has a 10 x10" foot. It has surplus travel. It's easily mounted, and it's electrically controlled or can be manually operated. Replacements are available everywhere. Honestly if it wasn't for the convenience factor I would certainly consider simple manual operation and may do that anyway at least short term. After all, semi drivers have no problem with them. A simple angle bracket made of heavy angle iron is all that is really required to mount them and that would point the shaft towards the side of the bus where you could have a socket to accept the handle. I'm not doing mine that way for several reasons but it'd be the cheap and solid option.

Jim

For several years I've been thinking of doing what you're now doing, the only difference being that I would have each jack's crank handle shaft extend out to the side of the bus, and then all I need do is use a powerful cordless drill to wind it down to the ground, then finish the jacking by hand if the drill won't handle it.   My home-made spare tire winch is already like this  -  a cheapo Harbor Fright worm-drive 2000lb winch lowers the spare wheel/tire to the ground or lifts it back up to its cradle, and I can take the crank handle off it and use my cordless drill instead.   Easy!   I definitely like the KISS approach  -  heck, I don't even have airbags, and my bus rides and handles really well without them.

John 

[Jim Blackwood]

John, to do it the way you describe, all you need is a few 11" long chunks of big angle iron with one 9" leg and the other 4" or so, probably 1/4 to 3/8" wall would be fine. In the rear you'd need a 1" spacer between the bogie and the bulkhead. Bolt that to the bogie, bolt the jack to that, and there you go. Chances are pretty good for finding such angles at a metals scrapyard. (Might be thicker but so what?)

In the front for a 4 leg it'd be about the same but except for the spacers you have to work around the fresh air duct. For a 3 leg you have to bridge between the 2 rear legs of the bogie.

In all cases the shaft now faces the side of the bus and can be extended as desired and exit beside the bay door.

Jim

[Jim Blackwood]

Actually I think those spacers need to be 1-1/8"

Jim

[chessie4905]

🙃