what anti freeze

[fortyniner]

That filter link https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/products/coolant/assemblies/  leads to a series of videos on additives and test strip usage I'm still in process of watching.

Here is what I gathered so far from the videos:

SCA additives
NITRITE: corrosion and cavitation protection plus aluminum and solder protection
BORATE: Ph control
MBT:   Copper protection
SILICATE: Ferrous metal corrosion protection

SCA+ differences:
MOLYBDATE+NITRATE: corrosion and cavitation protection
PHOSPHATE: Ph control


It seems apparent the two should not be mixed since they have some different chemicals but I don't know why I would choose one over the other.  yet.

I have to go back work now.

[luvrbus]

 The green needs to be changed more often 2 to 3 years is about it 's life span .anyways you are on the right track since antifreeze does more than protect the engine from freezing.The 92 and 71 series use the same material for the head seals fwiw and both will turn to mush.You cannot use junk antifreeze in the 71TA series because the antifreeze has to protect the after cooler that blows the theory about any can of antifreeze is ok for a 71 series.I see people dump the Walmart house brand green into buses and shake my head it says on the jug for light duty diesels only.Not a Detroit but Cummins has never used a green antifreeze and I always used the Cummins antifreeze in my 8v92 TA     

[fortyniner]

Then i found this:
https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/Detroit%20Diesel%20Coolants.pdf

Automotive type coolants generally contain high levels of phosphate and silicate, offer no liner pitting protection, and are not suitable for use in Detroit Diesel engines


And then it goes on to mention alternate coolant technology: OAT/NOAT 

Ethylene Glycol / Water + OAT / NOAT InhibitorPropylene Glycol / Water + OAT / NOAT Inhibitor Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are also available with an Organic Acid Technology (OAT)corrosion inhibitor package. These coolants require less maintenance over the useful life of the engine. The cooling system should either be equipped with a "blank" coolant filter or the coolant filter and piping may be omitted from the system.OAT fully formulated antifreezes are available as concentrated and pre-mixed. Concentrated antifreezes should be mixed at 50% (50% antifreeze/50% water). ...... Detroit Diesel markets OAT-inhibited ethylene glycol coolants—DDC POWER COOL Plus and POWER COOL Plus Marine (30% glycol, 70% water). POWER COOL Plus coolants contain all of the required inhibitors. If a non-DDC®OAT antifreeze is used, it must conform to TMC RP-338 specification. Do not add extender to new OAT antifreeze or coolant.

[windtrader]

OK, I would rather not have my new engine freeze up. So, recapping specific products mentioned in this winding thread.

Appears the answer depends on the motor. For a DD 871, which are safe and proven? Any others not mentioned?


71 Series can use good old Prestone Anti-freeze
Detroit Diesel markets OAT-inhibited ethylene glycol coolants—DDC POWER COOL Plus
[/size]Peak  Global,,, no other additives needed.Zerex Heavy Duty Extended Life Antifreeze in my Detroit Series 60. Prestone green, extended service green,Red from one source,  they service fleets of buses here in the southwest

[chessie4905]

If you use the off the shelf at Walmart, use Nalcool to supplement. Of course DDA wants you to use their costly products. Fine for 92 and 60 series. 2,3,4,6,and 8-71's used the plain stuff for years without issue, except for adding something for cavitation. Nalcool has been recommended for years. We used it in the coolant in our 4104  over 200,000 miles, and all our other diesels too without issue. If Cliff has seen gummy O-rings in Detroit Diesels, I'd be more inclined to think it came from oil or fuel in the coolant. What do the marine engines use in their coolant? Sea water. Time for popcorn.

[Dave5Cs]

 

[chessie4905]

👍

[luvrbus]

 I can tell you working on 92 series since the 70's I have never replaced a liner because of cavitation on a 92 series,there is only 2 inches of the liner in contact with the coolant below that are 2 0-rings seals  the rest of liner is a dry fit same as a 71 series.
The wrong mixture of antifreeze with engine heat the 2 seals turn into a marshmallow and leak
.Neither the  71 series or 92 have a head gasket per say on rubber seals (the L 71 early models used a head gasket) those head seals will get mushy on both engines you read about here all the time
.Antifreeze also has to protect the injector cups,oil cooler,transmission cooler if equipped,after cooler on turbo engines ,radiator and water pump.
The number one cause of a oil cooler failure is the antifreeze didn't do it's job lol when you replace a oil cooler,after cooler or a injector tube it's big money you didn.t save by buying cheap antifreeze.
Green is ok if it meets DD specs.Just because you own a 50 year engine doesn't mean you need to follow a 50 year spec on antifreeze there is better antifreeze out there that last a lot longer with better engine protection,
Cheesie the boats engine made in the last 50 years use a exchanger the salt water doesn't go through the engine     

[windtrader]

Thank you gentlemen for all the advice.
Tomorrow I'm going to the NAPA store and ask the counter clerk for the stuff that meets "Detroit Diesel" specs for a DD871v. Pretty funny joke and I thought we were friends. LOL

[chessie4905]

Of course the saltwater doesn't go through most of the engines nowadays. That type is  raw water cooled.They do use coolant, filters and additives.
And you  see the engines that have issues and need torn down. Millions of 71 series ran fine with that terrible green stuff. Replacing coolant at proper intervals and using demineralized water with proper percentage of mix or premixed won't plug coolers, unless they were plugged like radiators to begin with from improper coolant service with high mineral water added. Those orings and seals turning to mush sure isn't  caused by decent coolant, but excess heat, oil, and fuel, unless they are an aftermarket product of suspect material. I would buy genuine dda gasket sets and seals or Fel Pro for a rebuild or repair though to avoid buying mush seals. Just don't  install new coolant and expect it to be good for forever. Be interesting to see at what temperature those seals degrade.

[luvrbus]

Detroit has always recommended changing antifreeze because of silica drop out,the original antifreeze for  the old 71 series was Dupont Zerozone HD and it was green and I hated those 1 gal cans

[chessie4905]

Do you remember the alcohol " winter coolant? We used to sell it Our Western Auto store in the early years before current type antifreeze became standard. I still have a couple of those spouts to puncture those and oil cans.

[luvrbus]

Do you remember the alcohol " winter coolant? We used to sell it Our Western Auto store in the early years before current type antifreeze became standard. I still have a couple of those spouts to puncture those and oil cans.

Yep and can remember going to a drug store and buying a can of liquid ether to start a old inline 71 engine,if you had a head leaking the drug stores had liquid glass you could buy,those day are gone the druggies took care of that

[chessie4905]

Yeah, they don't believe they even use now in operating rooms. Put stuff into an iv. "Count to 10" 1 ,2,3,4,......... "wake up, we're done."

[windtrader]

Do you remember the alcohol " winter coolant? We used to sell it Our Western Auto store in the early years before current type antifreeze became standard. I still have a couple of those spouts to puncture those and oil cans.

That's a great point about those who follow the OEM manual and specs to the T. There are constant,  beneficial advancements part of new products that resolve old known problems. Surely, some current anti-freeze products work better than the old stuff and naturally, these improved products are not mentioned in the original manuals. Additionally, DD surely released technical bulletins over decades discussing use of alternate and improved anit-freezes.