Need help figuring out why my 1992 60 Series won't run.

[Fred Mc]

When you switch forums it takes a while for your bus to get used to the new forum and the advice from it. It should come quickly.

[Busted Knuckle]

Thanks everybody.
From what Don Fairchild has told me it's a DDEC 2.
It has two multi pin plugs held in by 1/4" screws and 3 smaller clip in plugs all on the same end.
We tested the multi-pin plug for power and w/o the ignition switch up front off we found 12-13 volts on a pin in the "b" cavity. With the ign switch on we had 12-13 volts on that same pin as well as one of the pins in the "a" cavity.
Can't see any numbers on the wires and the wires are all different colors. I didn't have a good multimeter with me at the time, and was using my "Blue-Point" (Snap-on) tester it's a mutlifunction test light that does voltage or continuity either one depending on which way the switch is positioned.
It has 4 led's that light up as voltage increases 1 is 6v 2 is 12v 3 is 13v an all 4 is 24v.
It ain't fancy but it does tell you what you got fast an easy!
I do have a Simpson multimeter but it needed a new battery. I picked up a battery today so now I have use of a good multimeter.

I will move my primer to the secondary filter Sat. when I have time to work on it again.

I hadn't thought about watching for the CEL SEL lights we have been doing everything from the rear and I have been having an Amish teenager that's been helping me go turn the front switch on for me.

I don't have a Pro-link or any other type of reader. Yes I know I need one and I actually had one when we had all the buses in the charter business but when we got the S417's it was useless as Diamler had their own readers to read the whole crazy system they had built, so my Pro-Link got put away in a drawer in a file cabinet and eventually grew legs.

I replaced both positive and negative cables to the batteries so bad cables are not the problem.
At the Vanner I have 12-13v and 24v respectively but my big mistake their was I used the main ground on the battery to test it instead of the ground on the Vanner.

I need to positively identify which pins that need to have the 12 volts + and which ones would be the grounds so I can check to make sure they are good.
  BK   

[someguy]

Code 48 is low pressure fuel but doesn't keep one from starting and running and you can change the programed limit,2 new 8-D batteries and the MT 39 reduction starter voltage drop is not his problem since the 12.7 was machinal injection the DDEC just measured the amount of fuel   

LOL  <snip> - moderator edit.

Let's dial it back please!  The forum is a place for bus folk to help each other out, encourage, contribute, correct, etc..  Sarcasm has a much better home out on social media.  And in this case, Clifford has helped almost everyone on the forum as can be seen by checking some of his 22,000 posts.

Thanks!  Feel free to PM me if any questions/concerns. 

:: plyons Forum Moderator
- Phil

[someguy]

http://www.detroitmanuals.info/series60-ddecv-troubleshooting/421202.html

https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/DDEC%20I,%20II%20and%20III-IV%20Schematics_files/DDEC%20I%20TroubleShooting%20Guide.pdf

See Section 3, page 12 to read the codes from your CEL without a scanner.

[Busted Knuckle]

http://www.detroitmanuals.info/series60-ddecv-troubleshooting/421202.html

https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/DDEC%20I,%20II%20and%20III-IV%20Schematics_files/DDEC%20I%20TroubleShooting%20Guide.pdf

See Section 3, page 12 to read the codes from your CEL without a scanner.

Thanks for the reminder of using the CEL lights to read the codes. That's how we did it in the past before I had a Pro-Link.
  BK 

[luvrbus]

LOL  "machinal injection" huh ?  DDEC measures the fuel ?  With a cup ?

Hey wise @$# you ever saw a injector from the 12.7 series 60,I bet you never saw a injector timing pin for a series 60 

[Busted Knuckle]

Hey wise @$# you ever saw a injector from the 12.7 series 60,I bet you never saw a injector timing pin for a series 60

Someguy, please learn to curb your know it all attitude until you get some real world experience!

Clifford aka Yoda has probably forgotten more than you'll ever learn from GOOGLE and his IS HANDS ON EXPERIENCE from before their was GOOGLE!

I'm not saying you can't learn or even be helpful from googling, but common sense and REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE goes a LONG WAY!

YODA has helped more of us than the rest of us all together have helped others!
  BK 

[buswarrior]

LOL  "machinal injection" huh ?  DDEC measures the fuel ?  With a cup ?

I miss Kadletz.

That bit of childishness would be the pleasant end to this distraction.

Gary, punt this agitator?

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

[Van]

[
This forum is like some sort of a strange twilight zone of crotchety old anti CAN bus men dissing ABS and hugging their oil leaking 2 strokes.  Time has stopped here. It's sad./quote]

  Square peg in a round hole Much? Sounds like this boy's cheese dun slide off his cracker

[luvrbus]

[
This forum is like some sort of a strange twilight zone of crotchety old anti CAN bus men dissing ABS and hugging their oil leaking 2 strokes.  Time has stopped here. It's sad./quote]

  Square peg in a round hole Much? Sounds like this boy's cheese dun slide off his cracker

He is harmless and has some good ideas, he just spends to much time with Google to try and make a point,I knew he didn't know much about the series 60 when he was going to check and see if it monitored fuel pressure 

[Busted Knuckle]

[
This forum is like some sort of a strange twilight zone of crotchety old anti CAN bus men dissing ABS and hugging their oil leaking 2 strokes.  Time has stopped here. It's sad./quote]

  Square peg in a round hole Much? Sounds like this boy's cheese dun slide off his cracker

LOL! Thanks for the laugh Van, I hadn't seen this as I guess Phil modified it before I spied it!
Ya know funny thing is he ain't the first one to come in here thinking they knew it all (If I remember correctly back when I was about 11-12 yrs old I was the same way!)
And he won't be the last!
But if he'd take some well intended advice and listen and learn he'll find he will be welcome and learn a lot as well as be able to contribute.
I admit he did remind me of something long forgotten! About using the CEL light to count and read codes.

And I really have to laugh at this part! crotchety old anti CAN bus men dissing ABS and hugging their oil leaking 2 strokes.  Time has stopped here.

He obviously hasn't been on "grease monkey" and if he had they'd bounced his @$# a long time ago!

  BK 

[richard5933]

For some it's hard to realize that there are more than one aspect to the hobby. For some it's just about making a bus into a motor home. For others it's the added challenge of doing the conversion with a vintage bus.

Takes a bit of crazy to decide to make a bus into a motor home, but it takes a special kind of crazy to do it with a vintage or even antique bus.

[Busted Knuckle]

For some it's hard to realize that there are more than one aspect to the hobby. For some it's just about making a bus into a motor home. For others it's the added challenge of doing the conversion with a vintage bus.

Takes a bit of crazy to decide to make a bus into a motor home, but it takes a special kind of crazy to do it with a vintage or even antique bus.

Yeah or even a 28 yr German bus built by a company that folded long ago!
  BK 

[someguy]

Thanks for the reminder of using the CEL lights to read the codes. That's how we did it in the past before I had a Pro-Link.
  BK 

You aren't the only one reading this thread.  Did I say it was for you ?

For those that aren't familiar with DDEC on S60, the ECM controls the timing and fuel delivered for the mechanically (camshaft) operated injectors.  The DDEC computer does not measure the fuel delivered.  It relies on the injector being properly calibrated and installed and when it fires it with the correct injection timing pulse that it will deliver the proper amount of fuel.

Both the 2 stroke DD diesel injectors and the S60 injectors rely on spill ports to control the timing and volume delivered.  On 2 stroke DD injectors the spill port is controlled by a scroll moved by the rack.  On the S60 the spill port is a high speed electric valve that is controlled by the ECM injector signal.

The S60 was one of the earliest diesel engines to have electronically controlled injectors.  The 2 stroke DD engines were some of the earliest to have unit injectors.   Most engines prior to that used an inlne injection pump with injection lines that went to each individual injector.

Bosch and Robert Bosch or whatever conglomerate was used post war, made a ton of money on every diesel engine because most used a Bosch inline pump. DD went its own way with unit injectors.

The DD 2 strokes also used direct injection.   Many engines used indirect injection with precups long after the DD 2 strokes were on the market.  And DD 2 strokes were never available with a pony engine.  They started much better than old indirect injected engines.  But still no where near as good as modern day diesel engines.

Another thing a lot of people don't know about DD 2 stroke engines is that they can be made to run CW or CCW with the same basic engine parts.  Normally the only big change is the camshaft because the upslope cam profile is different than the downslope profile.  I think that the cam can be swapped end to end on some engines to even reuse that, but I'm not sure.  I don't think it could be swapped on every model.

On twin engine boats the engines are sometimes (usually ?) set up to run in different directions.  The shop manuals have have a page that shows where to put the idler gears to make the engine run in each direction.  The blower turns the same direction regardless of the engine direction.  This is achieved by moving the idler gear that drives it to the other side.

I wrote this all from memory, without consulting Google.

[richard5933]

Moderator??

Getting tiring watching a constant pissing match on the threads. If you have something to contribute, please do so. If not, please sit back and read quietly.

Don't think anyone is here to prove anything to anyone, or at least hope not. For me, I ask when I need help and offer advice when I can. Thought that's what we're all here for.

Not directed at anyone in particular, but rather collectively.