Cruise Control Options - Now that Cruise King is gone

[richard5933]

As my mother would have said, I'm once again a day late and a dollar short...

I finally decided to add a cruise control to my bus, and of course the best option is now gone from the picture. Now that Cruise King is no longer selling kits, what options are there for installing a cruise to my bus.

Here's what I'm working with...

• 1974 GMC 4108
• Detroit Diesel 8V71
• Spicer 4-speed
• Air throttle
• Speedo gear on transmission works, but I'm not using it since the speedo itself was inaccurate. (Consistent, but inaccurate) I'm using GPS speedo

Not sure is all this information is relevant or not, but there is is.

Any advice on cruise options would be great. I'm mainly interested in units designed for the application if possible, not a lightweight automotive.

[luvrbus]

Rostra was a option not great but they worked for awhile I don't think they are making anything now for the machinal engines,there maybe old stock floating around on the market,I have seen new Bendix NOS in the box pop up on E bay before those  are good units. 

[richard5933]

If I search for the Bendix unit, what exactly am I searching for? Is there a particular model that works with the air throttle?

[Nova Eona]

I searched around for a while on this topic myself, I liked that King was both Cruise Control and Fast Idle, haven't seen that elsewhere.  At the moment I'm designing and building my own with an Arduino controller because I couldn't find anything on the market to suit.

[luvrbus]

If I search for the Bendix unit, what exactly am I searching for? Is there a particular model that works with the air throttle?

I don't have any idea now it's been so long ask Lostagain he has a Bendix on his

[benherman1]

I searched around for a while on this topic myself, I liked that King was both Cruise Control and Fast Idle, haven't seen that elsewhere.  At the moment I'm designing and building my own with an Arduino controller because I couldn't find anything on the market to suit.

Let me know when that's up and running. I'm hoping to do some automation with Arduino as well but I'm a bit earlier in the process.

[chessie4905]

Get a Rostra. They work fine. There was a guy over on bno that used to sell them for our coaches. Only shortcoming is no fast idle. Big deal. You should already have this anyway. They are very flexible with dip switches for tuning settings. Lots of brackets and connectors. They work nice with air throttles since the pull is less than with cable. They come with settings for clutch systems in the package. You need the all electronic version. The vacuum version, if it is still available, needs a vacuum source. You need to also buy the actuator switch, of which they have a few choices. I've used them with success on a 2003 Suzuki Vitara and a Suzuki Burgman maxi scooter. They have been used sucessfully on Honda Goldwings too. I would suggest connecting the actuator at the accelerator pedal, with the actuator unit mounted in compartment under driver. Mount speed sensor at drivers front brake drum. Your drums may already have threaded holes on inside flange for a couple of bolts or you can glue magnets to the drum, which is what I did on the scooter. They explain how to set dip switches. The whole kit should be less than 300 bucks. Oh, and they are 12 volts.

https://www.amazon.com/Rostra-250-1223-Universal-Electronic-Control/dp/B007ZCQD9S/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/135-3893330-4290907?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B007ZCQD9S&pd_rd_r=a6c52b15-0cdd-4106-b999-4a97e19e024e&pd_rd_w=PZ21Y&pd_rd_wg=JSPbq&pf_rd_p=ce6c479b-ef53-49a6-845b-bbbf35c28dd3&pf_rd_r=N68STP81KB5FC0GEQCR3&psc=1&refRID=N68STP81KB5FC0GEQCR3

[luvrbus]

Rostra may be worth a try when Pete on the BNO was selling the units I never got one to last a long period of time but they were cheap in price.try it it doesn't work you can always buy a scooter and use it  .Geoff has one on his RTS and I know he has replaced it how many times I don't recall,The King was by far the better unit and a lot higher price too     

[6805eagleguy]

I have a king cruise that was on the 8v71 I took out. It would need a little new wiring, but I think you could make it work.

Interested?

[someguy]

I searched around for a while on this topic myself, I liked that King was both Cruise Control and Fast Idle, haven't seen that elsewhere.  At the moment I'm designing and building my own with an Arduino controller because I couldn't find anything on the market to suit.

If you can read the coach speed off a transmission sensor, this wouldn't be hard to do.  It's a pretty simple (slow) PID loop.

What are you going to use for an actuator to move the throttle ?   How are you planning to sense brake actuation ?  Off the brake lights ?

[chessie4905]

They fail a lot... sure Cliff🙄. Sure King Cruise units are nice, but if you have issues, who are you going to call? No more service. You are basically screwed if it fails unless you find another one on ebay or somewhere IF it works. Rostras have been around for ages and have sold 50 times more units than King and they have customer service yet. Pete RTS Daytona used to sell them and offer assistance to users. Don't  know if he is still around. Hasn't posted for a few years.
I have a King Cruise on my 4905 which I saved off the 4104. Otherwise I would have used the Rostra. King units were $695 before they went out of business, btw.

[David Anderson]

I've had a Rosta on my eagle for 18 years. Never given me any trouble. I have the actuator servo up under the nose behind the eagle emblem. The cable pulls the foot feed pedal. The magnetic sensor is tie wrapped on my driveshaft.

[Nova Eona]

If you can read the coach speed off a transmission sensor, this wouldn't be hard to do.  It's a pretty simple (slow) PID loop.

What are you going to use for an actuator to move the throttle ?   How are you planning to sense brake actuation ?  Off the brake lights ?

At present my plan is to use this actuator https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071DWJCPR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 with a custom mount and linkage to allow it to adjust the throttle without interfering with the air throttle - that's actually the most complicated part at present, as I'm still figuring out how I want to mount/manipulate the thing between all my other summer projects.  I want to mount it at the governor so that it's not subject to the delays of air, which adds complexity but should be worthwhile.

Programming for the actuator control is done - it's got a Hall effect sensor, so it can sorta remember where it is, and I've got the voltage dividers built which will allow the Arduino to read the tach and speedo inputs without letting its own smoke out.  Next up on the control side is verifying that it can read those inputs appropriately and account for random voltage dips or mis-reads.  The actual control logic from there should be pretty straightforward, if demanding some trial and error and 'what if X happens' planning.  For brake sensor, either a brake light tap or a switch on the pedal.

In my head this project has three phases:

Phase 1: Fast idle with user-adjustable RPM setting (side bonus - good 'stuck on a hill' emergency option)
Phase 2: Actual Cruise control based off the speedo or possibly GPS if I can get a GPS output, as my speedo gets a little jittery above 45
Phase 3: Long term project - Shift assist!  With throttle control and accurate readouts of tach and speedo, it should be possible to teach the Arduino how to set the throttle for the smoothest possible shifts, albeit with plenty of trial and error.  This is for fun more than necessity.

It should also be noted that I'd be way less comfortable with this project if I had an automatic transmission, particularly since if the actuator fails mechanically it will remain in whatever position it was last at - I do have some ideas here for electronic failure though, namely a set of relays which, if not powered by the Arduino's controls, automatically applies the voltage to withdraw the actuator.  I don't plan to use this on significant hills and so can rely on the clutch to get me out of trouble if it starts acting up.

[luvrbus]

They fail a lot... sure Cliff🙄. Sure King Cruise units are nice, but if you have issues, who are you going to call? No more service. You are basically screwed if it fails unless you find another one on ebay or somewhere IF it works. Rostras have been around for ages and have sold 50 times more units than King and they have customer service yet. Pete RTS Daytona used to sell them and offer assistance to users. Don't  know if he is still around. Hasn't posted for a few years.
I have a King Cruise on my 4905 which I saved off the 4104. Otherwise I would have used the Rostra. King units were $695 before they went out of business, btw.

King didn't go out of business they sold that part off several years back,they are mostly electronics now for mobile satellite. What I didn't like about the Rostra was you couldn't mount it close to the engine governor with a cable throttle people like David mounted those on the pedal.I liked the King mounted in the rear and when I installed Jakes I could offer people a fast idle and a cruise for the price of the Jake brake combo switch kinda of a no brainer.Plus you can use a tach instead of glue on sensors with the later Kings if you had a tack the same hookup almost like the newer electronic engine use now,I never saw a Rostra on a bus from the factory it was always a King or a Bendix for the money they may be ok but I have changed a lot of those out for the Kings.$695 was cheap they cost around a 1000 bucks for a long time       

[someguy]

At present my plan is to use this actuator https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071DWJCPR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 with a custom mount and linkage to allow it to adjust the throttle without interfering with the air throttle - that's actually the most complicated part at present, as I'm still figuring out how I want to mount/manipulate the thing between all my other summer projects.  I want to mount it at the governor so that it's not subject to the delays of air, which adds complexity but should be worthwhile.

I agree that figuring out the actuator is the hardest part.

Here is the thing... the cruise control system should be fault proof. If it loses signal or the battery quits or whatever, it should default to the idle position.  I don't think that what you are proposing will do that.  If your actuator loses power or signal, your throttle is stuck.  I'm not sure how to get around that problem.

Phase 3: Long term project - Shift assist!  With throttle control and accurate readouts of tach and speedo, it should be possible to teach the Arduino how to set the throttle for the smoothest possible shifts, albeit with plenty of trial and error.  This is for fun more than necessity.

Rockwell built a shift system like this.   The shift knob had a plus and minus button on it.  You pressed the button, the computer figured out what gear you were in.  Then it broke torque on the transmission.  The driver was supposed to shift into neutral.  Then it adjusted the engine RPM to match the next gear.

It never caught on.  No "real" trucker needed it.  But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful for a newbie.

Do you have an engine pickup to read RPM from ?

It should also be noted that I'd be way less comfortable with this project if I had an automatic transmission, particularly since if the actuator fails mechanically it will remain in whatever position it was last at - I do have some ideas here for electronic failure though, namely a set of relays which, if not powered by the Arduino's controls, automatically applies the voltage to withdraw the actuator.  I don't plan to use this on significant hills and so can rely on the clutch to get me out of trouble if it starts acting up.

I'm glad to hear that this is going on a bus with a manual transmission.

Cruise control is so much easier to do on an electronic engine.  Either by using CC switch pins on the ECM or sending CANBus messages or manipulating the throttle signal from the pedal.