What is the difference between a 102EL3, E4500 and a J4500 ?

someguy · August 03, 2020, 01:33:21 AM

What is the difference between a 102EL3, E4500 and a J4500 ?

I know that the EL3 "Renaissance" is the oldest, followed by the E4500 and now only the J4500 is currently being built. But what other differences are there ? The E and the J were built at the same time for a while. What is the difference ?

Thanks

CrabbyMilton · August 03, 2020, 03:59:53 AM

The J4500 for the most part is a much improved version of the E4500. The 102EL3 was considered to be the premium coach meant to compete head to head with the PREVOST H series. One of the major flubs of the 102EL3/E4500 was the steerable tag which could not be locked out and it was not well accepted. Now the J4500 is considered the top but with more lower cost options. The first 102EL3's sole engine choice was the DETROIT DIESEL C60 with selectable HP ratings which while a great idea, wasn't so good in the end. Now the J4500 has a choice of CUMMINS or DETROIT but DETROIT seems to be moving toward proprietary status so we'll see what happens.

DoubleEagle · August 03, 2020, 04:23:40 AM

The EL3 also had the distinction of cracking windshields easily because of body distortion. The outfit I worked for returned theirs within a short time of getting them, and going to the J4500.

buswarrior · August 03, 2020, 04:37:47 AM

Lots of computerized stuff on the original E models, but it has migrated into the J over the years.

Tag steering may be had in the current J models.

You are asking a broad question which covers 22 years of coach building.

They may look the same, but the stuff under the hood all depends on what the original purchaser ordered, and/or what options were available that year.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

ktmossman · August 03, 2020, 01:10:37 PM

According to MCI (salesman who was trying to sell me one), the EL3 (Renaissance) was the natural progression of the DL3, but had the new body style and some "luxuries." It was a mixed bag. People still liked the reliability and affordability of the DLs, but the new body style had turned heads as well. So, they decided to diverge the lines.

The EL3 became the E4500 and they kept producing DL3s for a bit. The early E4500s were still buggy with things like the steerable tags and the "gold brick" Multiplex, but they kept improving on it as the "luxury" line. Once they decided to stop producing the DL3 body style, they still needed a "work horse" "bare bones" model, so they started the J4500 line. It used the E4500 body style, but had less of the "extras" (like no steerable tags.). Over the years, more of the "luxury" features became part of the J4500 (as the bugs were worked out), but they kept adding new gadgetry to the E4500s. This was a deciding factor for me, when I chose the J as my conversion platform. While there is nothing simple about these beasts, I wanted to avoid any complexity I could.

someguy · August 03, 2020, 06:37:51 PM

Thanks for the answers, guys.

What year did independent front suspension happen ?

What year went away from the golden bricks to the more modern Multiplex system ?

lostagain · August 04, 2020, 07:01:50 AM

The new J cars have had the ZF IFS only for the last 4, 5 years. Beautiful ride and steering. Much better than any Prevost in my opinion.

luvrbus · August 04, 2020, 07:12:53 AM

Quote from: lostagain on August 04, 2020, 07:01:50 AM
The new J cars have had the ZF IFS only for the last 4, 5 years. Beautiful ride and steering. Much better than any Prevost in my opinion.

I drove a new J yesterday a friend just added to his fleet a marvelous piece of equipment lol as it should be for $655k

ktmossman · August 04, 2020, 07:22:23 AM

From what I was told, they started moving away from the "gold brick" in mid-2001 model year. (But I have also heard that there are a few 2002 model year busses that still had them.) The good news is that they are easy to spot, hence the "gold brick" name. On a whim, I did check whether or not it was possible to swap the "gold bricks" out for the more modern multiplex (thinking I might be able to find some used parts). I was told in no uncertain terms that MCI doesn't even try it. It would required a replacement of every module and harness.

lostagain · August 04, 2020, 07:25:42 AM

Clifford, your friend must be busy to be adding a new bus to his fleet. I see a lot of bus companies going under with no work since March.

luvrbus · August 04, 2020, 07:50:27 AM

Quote from: lostagain on August 04, 2020, 07:25:42 AM
Clifford, your friend must be busy to be adding a new bus to his fleet. I see a lot of bus companies going under with no work since March.

He is executive coach rentals only he told me his business is up 15% since the C-19 virus ,lol you need to be a high paid executive to pay his fees I know that,his clients are not the Uber crowd

windtrader · August 04, 2020, 09:52:03 AM

Rich get richer. same with private jets, business is up a lot. $$ buys you no crowds, no TSA, no crying babies, and plenty of cocktails before takeoff. lol

buswarrior · August 04, 2020, 10:47:33 AM

There is a niche market in doing company shuttle work now.

Companies putting on a private coach to get their employees off the transit.

Couple drivers i know would be doomed without this work.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior

windtrader · August 04, 2020, 06:26:20 PM

QuoteThere is a niche market in doing company shuttle work now.

Maybe new in your neck of the woods but the company shuttles have been running between Silicon Valley and San Francisco for years.

They used to put company logos on them until there was too much blowback from the liberals in the city moaning about the rich techies getting luxury rides. lol