Lion Energy Lithium Batteries - A No-brainer

[freds]

Gary,
Too bad the article author is a shill for Lion and LFP. Li-ion is used by many EV makers such as Tesla, Nissan, Hhevy Volt/Bolt, BMW, etc. etc.

Too bad a disservice to this virtually DIY group who have cajones to DIY a battery pack. Building one seems pretty similar to the typical hazardous activities involved in driving and maintaining a 20 ton commercial vehicle.

Maybe do an article lifting the skirt on DIY house bus battery.

You know as bus nuts; we all are basically frugal (see my posts) and will balance gained knowledge against risk, so yes I am doing/have done a recycled DIY house battery in my bus.

So my input will always be to add a bit of tribal knowledge that I hope others benefit from.

Should my Tesla based Lithium house batteries be housed in a stainless steel shell like Boeing is doing with the 787 for their cobalt based batteries?

Not really going there....

[luvrbus]

Fulltimers pay by the month, 6 months or a year which isn't as bad. We found when we stay 3 days that you can get the week rate for less and just leave early. What does a Hotel cost these days for one night 125.00 to 300.00 plus don't take the beer out of their little refrigerator it will be on the bill at the desk and cost you 25.00 etc.

The $60 fee jumps to $85 for the labor day week end for me $85 they should come in and make the bed at least

[dtcerrato]

Those prices are as high or higher than camping in Alaska! Damned...
We're either boon docking or sitting with full hook ups @ Camp Malemute in Tok! When we're up there.
                               

[chessie4905]

Most campgrounds here have raised prices. Every one is buying travel trailers or motorhomes and going camping. Probably the same out west. They are perfect for remote work from office or somewhere to get away from potentially getting the virus.

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Gary,
Too bad the article author is a shill for Lion and LFP. Li-ion is used by many EV makers such as Tesla, Nissan, Hhevy Volt/Bolt, BMW, etc. etc.

Too bad a disservice to this virtually DIY group who have cajones to DIY a battery pack. Building one seems pretty similar to the typical hazardous activities involved in driving and maintaining a 20 ton commercial vehicle.

Maybe do an article lifting the skirt on DIY house bus battery.

Windtrader, please send us an article about a DIY Lithium battery setup and we will run it.  Several people have offered to do it but later backed out because they have run into problems. I am sure there are people out there that have done it successfully, but nobody has send us an article yet. Most of them are off-grid people with the batteries in a place that if something happened, it woudl not take out a house or bus.  So please send me one and we will run it. 

BTW, the article I posted works with any good any Lithium battery, it is actually pretty biased and will work with any Lithium battery and the author received nothing for the article, he just  wanted to get the information out to other bus nuts, like all of our contributors. Our authors get a free subscription to BCM and nothing else.

But unless you are an EE, I would be very careful building a Lithium battery bank for a bus on your own because things could go horribly wrong and you could lose your bus, or worse.

Please send your article to Gary@BusConversionMagazine.com.  BCM is all about DYI as much as you can, and it sounds like you have a lot of great ideas so please send them my way.

[Fred Mc]

"Too bad a disservice to this virtually DIY group who have cajones to DIY a battery pack. Building one seems pretty similar to the typical hazardous activities involved in driving and maintaining a 20 ton commercial vehicle."
I don't think its a disservice at all. There are different levels of diy in solar all the way from having one small solar panel to keep the battery topped up to building your own battery. Until I started following DIYSOLAR I didn't realize how easy it was(or if you could even do it) to build your own battery.
While I feel I could comfortably do it I'm not sure I would.It depends on how much the Lion/Battleborns come down in price.
Is kinda like can I "run the rack" on my engine.Probably.Will I do it? Not likely.
But I will say this.Camping without generators runnig all day is REALLY nice.
Oh one last thing.
IF you build your own you will probably have to deal directly with the Chinese.And I'm not so sure I want to do that anymore.

[windtrader]

Windtrader, please send us an article about a DIY Lithium battery setup and we will run it.  Several people have offered to do it but later backed out because they have run into problems. I am sure there are people out there that have done it successfully, but nobody has send us an article yet. Most of them are off-grid people with the batteries in a place that if something happened, it woudl not take out a house or bus.  So please send me one and we will run it. 

BTW, the article I posted works with any good any Lithium battery, it is actually pretty biased and will work with any Lithium battery and the author received nothing for the article, he just  wanted to get the information out to other bus nuts, like all of our contributors. Our authors get a free subscription to BCM and nothing else.

But unless you are an EE, I would be very careful building a Lithium battery bank for a bus on your own because things could go horribly wrong and you could lose your bus, or worse.

Please send your article to Gary@BusConversionMagazine.com.  BCM is all about DYI as much as you can, and it sounds like you have a lot of great ideas so please send them my way.

Hi Gary,
I'm pleased you offered for a DIY battery builder to share their experience. In the email to you, we can work out the details of an article, maybe a multi part series covering the broader topic of getting off the grid. Following the 12kW lithium battery build project, I just completed DIY 2kW solar panel project, all maximum integration with existing house systems, thereby minimizing cost for the upgrade. Doing this smartly makes this sort of off grid capability far more attainable than shelling out retail. don

[windtrader]

It depends on how much the Lion/Battleborns come down in price.
IF you build your own you will probably have to deal directly with the Chinese.

The retail product's prices will always carry a premium over direct material cost. Maybe it will close enough to where one's time, energy, and interest justifies buying off the shelf. For the DIYer, that question faces every make/buy decision.


Presently, the price differential between raw cells and reclaimed OEM packs and new retail lithium battery packs is staggering. I assure you if cost saving is a decision criteria, simply check the DIY win on this one. 1kW raw cells are running about $100 while retail is running around $900-$1000, no brainer as it gets.

[Jim Blackwood]

So that's all well and good but the cost of doing a lithium battery pack is staggering any way you do it. Compared to good old lead/acid I think the "no brainer" part refers more to switching off the financial analysis part of the brain and just blindly following the Gee Whiz part. Even after all the descriptions and explanations I just don't see the advantage. Maybe if weight were a big concern... but it isn't.

Jim

[windtrader]

@jim Upgrading to lithium makes the most sense where the ability for extended off-grid boondocking is required/highly desirable. If you drive pole to pole there is little sense in doing it, financial or practical - old FLA tech works fine.

[richard5933]

I think it also makes sense if one is trying to live on solar, especially in the north or at time other than summer when the potential hours for charging are shorter - lithium can be charged in much less time.

[chessie4905]

two small Honda gas generators, parralleled when necessary, look better all the time. Plus, some are really quiet. Or for Clifford, Predators from Harbor Freight.😉

[richard5933]

two small Honda gas generators, parralleled when necessary, look better all the time. Plus, some are really quiet. Or for Clifford, Predators from Harbor Freight.😉

It's really hard to fully charge FLA batteries on a generator - running the full charge pattern on mine takes quite a long time. I can push some charge into them in a few hours, but they never get fully charged that way.

And, did I mention I HATE the noise from a generator, even the extra-special-super-duper-quiet ones? Nothing like waking up next to a quiet still lake, listening to the still air, and then suddenly a generator starts up and brings the noise of the city out to the country.

[someguy]

Why aren't people buying used Tesla Model S battery packs ?  They sell for about $1200.   24V nominal.  5.2 KWHr *useable*.

I plan to pick up 2 of them this fall.

They have a pretty safe chemistry.  No need to monitor temps during discharge for typical bus loads.  You have to carefully monitor voltages though.  Discharge too deep and you'll kill them.   Ditto on overcharging them.  Can't charge them below freezing, but all lithium chemistries are like that.   

I'm going to test them as the chassis battery as well.

[richard5933]

Found these today.

https://www.lifebluebattery.com/rv-boat-low-temperature-lithium-ion-batteries/200ah-lithium-low-temperature.html

Not cheap, but they have higher capacity than most and use a built-in heater to enable charge down to -4F.

Four of these would provide 800 Ah of lithium and take you quite a ways, but it would also set you back $8,000.

I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready to move on this in a year or so the price will have come down considerably and the available options will be much larger.