Strange steering problem on hydraulic steering assist

6805eagleguy · July 07, 2020, 08:21:56 PM

Ok, I have hydraulic assist on my steering, which is a manual box controlling a valve on a cylinder, which hooks to the rest of the linkage.

As some may know, today we took the eagle on a test drive, first drive since replacing the 8v71.

Only problem was the steering assist

The best way I can describe it is that you had to steer about 3 Seconds down the road, you would move the wheel, the 2-3 seconds later the tires would move.
So basically a 2-3 second delay.

Very dangerous to drive, only went 40mph for a few miles.

So... Why?

On the 8v71, the hydraulic pump was not working so we didn't have any pressure, so no problem.

I can unhook the pump but then we're back to Armstrong steering.

Anybody know anything about hydraulic assist?

I'm thinking it might need more pressure. Just a brainstorm I had.

Sorry for long post

Mason

luvrbus · July 07, 2020, 08:37:39 PM

Check your pump rotation sounds reversed from the 8v71

6805eagleguy · July 07, 2020, 09:09:53 PM

Clifford, what would reverse pump rotation cause.

Because first time we hooked up lines, we hooked them backwards and that did not work at all.

I will check in morning.

Might bring back a few pictures also.

Mason

chessie4905 · July 08, 2020, 04:41:50 AM

Did you bleed air from system? After 10 years sitting, a small drip could allow significant air into system.

luvrbus · July 08, 2020, 05:39:07 AM

Wrong rotation they don't build pressure,coming from a 8v71 they can be both directions on a right handed 8v71 engine was it cam driven or blower driven ?,photo will help to see if we are dealing with a gear or vane type pump,the control valve for those is inside the drag link that connects to the steering box arm if you didn't remove it that shouldn't have changed

6805eagleguy · July 08, 2020, 07:26:22 AM

Quote from: chessie4905 on July 08, 2020, 04:41:50 AM
Did you bleed air from system? After 10 years sitting, a small drip could allow significant air into system.

Yes, we attempted to bleed system because all hoses are new. I was told/heard that turning tires lock to lock several times would bleed it.
Is that the right way?

6805eagleguy · July 08, 2020, 07:28:36 AM

Quote from: luvrbus on July 08, 2020, 05:39:07 AM
Wrong rotation they don't build pressure,coming from a 8v71 they can be both directions on a right handed 8v71 engine was it cam driven or blower driven ?,photo will help to see if we are dealing with a gear or vane type pump,the control valve for those is inside the drag link that connects to the steering box arm if you didn't remove it that shouldn't have changed

Clifford, all we did up front was swap new hoses in.

Here are pics of the old and new pumps. I don't know what kind of pump the 8v71 has, but it was not working to my knowledge, system was full of fluid when we bought it but no power steering.

Dave5Cs · July 08, 2020, 01:58:23 PM

Make sure it is centered per book and tires are off ground when turning side to side.

chessie4905 · July 08, 2020, 06:43:37 PM

Do you have foaming in the reservoir? Still sounds like air.

6805eagleguy · July 19, 2020, 06:33:30 PM

ok, I am finally back. Sorry for the wait. Last week was quite a ride.

Let me just start at the beginning.

So after my last post, I was Down in the barn and I decided to work on bleeding the system, figuring it still had air in it. After jacking up the bus, I went around and pushed on the tire and was astonished to find that the tire would move both ways about 2-3 inches. Crawling underneath I found the problem, and took a short video of it here. https://youtu.be/GnCo9N9KGYc
I took it from the curb side, in the foreground you can see the hydraulic assist cylinder, what is moving is the 90 degree arm used to transfer longitudinal motion to side to side motion. Please take time to look at the 3 sec vid, it will answer many questions.

So basically we were 1 rusty 1/2" bolt from being in the ditch...

Well that was a shock to find.

MY Hypothesis: There are 4 bolts holding this bracket on, I am sure 3 were completely rusted through and the whole assembly was being held on by one bolt and some rust. As we were maneuvering out of our driveway the additional pressure from the hydraulic assist went ahead and broke the rust so it was hanging from 1 bolt. As you recall, the hydraulic assist was not working with the 8v71.

Which leads to the crazy steering problem we had.

This was Wednesday morning. So i tore into that and around 5 pm had it all back together with new bolts, new spacers, and a lot of reinforcement above the spacers.

Took it for a test drive that evening, everything worked great, but the steering wheel still had 2 inch slop either way in it, but it was solid so drivable.

On thursday we fabricated bunks, back bed platform, counter top, some kind of seating, and fridge mounts and we left around 3 for a 'relaxing vacation'

But we got it on the road!

but now i can start going to bed at a regular time again lol

and my phone stopped working so no pictures till I get that backed up.

mason

dtcerrato · July 19, 2020, 07:47:31 PM

Real quick! What I see is a real easy fix - just restore the anchorage point like you did.
BUT... If that were to let go going down the road - might as just as well let go of the steering wheel! Scary! But maybe not.

freds · July 20, 2020, 11:29:11 AM

I watched that video and holly crap!!!

If you got that level of rust, I think you better go on a hunt for other aw shits that need addressing!!!

6805eagleguy · August 09, 2020, 06:29:19 PM

Quote from: dtcerrato on July 19, 2020, 07:47:31 PM
Real quick! What I see is a real easy fix - just restore the anchorage point like you did.
BUT... If that were to let go going down the road - might as just as well let go of the steering wheel! Scary! But maybe not.

Yes dan, if that bolt had let loose we would have been in the ditch.

Yes, very scary

6805eagleguy · August 09, 2020, 06:32:49 PM

Quote from: freds on July 20, 2020, 11:29:11 AM
I watched that video and holly crap!!!

If you got that level of rust, I think you better go on a hunt for other aw shits that need addressing!!!

Fred's, in a way you are right, but you have not seen the level of restoration I have done on this bus. I'm pretty sure the steering is the only thing I haven't touched so far, besides adjusting the torsilastics.

Here's my project thread, it's kinda lengthy but it may help you get an idea of what's going on.
Now that we are back I am planning to redo the other side to the same

https://eagles-international.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4786&sid=91f2cc4e0eb064821596d38fa55438e1

First pic is drivers side fixed, second is passenger side

6805eagleguy · August 09, 2020, 06:49:11 PM

So as before posted, we had 2 inches slop in either side of steering wheel, so I am assuming that the hydraulic assist valve was shot. Since the blue bird is still (cough cough) around I was able to pull the power steering box and column, to put in the eagle. Now I need to lengthen the drag link from the bluebird for the eagle.

I think I will take a schedule 80 pipe that fits over drag link and lengthen it, anyone see a problem with that?

Thanks, mason