Would you buy a bus with a Manual Transmission

[Jim Blackwood]

I started seriously thinking about automatics when my left knee started hurting. I still have a 5 speed in my MGB but don't drive it as much as I used to and the clutch is lighter since I worked on it. Everything else is automatic and I have a thing for cruise control. That cartilage doesn't get replaced as fast as we get older and it's certainly possible to wear it out. Not for me. I have no intention of going in for hip and knee replacement parts.

Jim

[Lin]

It's sort of like asking if you prefer to do your laundry by hand or use a washing machine.  I bought this MC5a with a Spicer.  It is a ridiculous transmission.  Reverse is way to fast.  Even first is too high.  I had been on hills that the bus could not go up in first gear without taking a quarter mile running start (after removing the toad, of course).

I did eventually need the clutch replaced, but when I added everything up it made more sense to put the money toward an Allison.  That turned out to be a really great decision.  For future information, An Allison can be removed and replaced in a MA5a without pulling the engine.  There is a cross member beneath the transmission that prevents it, but if you cut out the center part of it wide enough to remove the transmission, it will come out and go back in without removing the engine.  Once it is back together, you can bolt a replacement cross member in joining the two cut ends.  This also allows you easy access to the transmission drain plug.

[luvrbus]

It's sort of like asking if you prefer to do your laundry by hand or use a washing machine.  I bought this MC5a with a Spicer.  It is a ridiculous transmission.  Reverse is way to fast.  Even first is too high.  I had been on hills that the bus could not go up in first gear without taking a quarter mile running start (after removing the toad, of course).

I did eventually need the clutch replaced, but when I added everything up it made more sense to put the money toward an Allison.  That turned out to be a really great decision.  For future information, An Allison can be removed and replaced in a MA5a without pulling the engine.  There is a cross member beneath the transmission that prevents it, but if you cut out the center part of it wide enough to remove the transmission, it will come out and go back in without removing the engine.  Once it is back together, you can bolt a replacement cross member in joining the two cut ends.  This also allows you easy access to the transmission drain plug.

That is not a easy conversion Lin well worth though lol I spent months helping Don find parts for that one 

[Lin]

Clifford, as with all of my projects it took longer, had more glitches, and cost more than I would have expected.  I don't know if you remember, but from day one of use the Allison 647 had a serious fluid leak.  I managed with it for two years until it got unbearable.  When United Transmission took it out, they found that there was only silicon instead of the main gasket.  Arizona Transmission did cover the repair cost though.  Assuming that there was nothing intentional in shipping me the transmission, I am guessing that an old exchange got shipped out by mistake.   

[luvrbus]

Clifford, as with all of my projects it took longer, had more glitches, and cost more than I would have expected.  I don't know if you remember, but from day one of use the Allison 647 had a serious fluid leak.  I managed with it for two years until it got unbearable.  When United Transmission took it out, they found that there was only silicon instead of the main gasket.  Arizona Transmission did cover the repair cost though.  Assuming that there was nothing intentional in shipping me the transmission, I am guessing that an old exchange got shipped out by mistake.

You know Kim the owner of AZ Transmission passed away,I don't think that will happen now if you have a problem

[Nova Eona]

I did buy one with a manual just last fall - still getting used to it, but it's kind of a fun 'character' piece to the bus, and it's not like I'm full-timing or driving it every day.  Slowly mastering the old crashbox is actually quite rewarding in its own way, and it definitely helps to keep your focus on how you're driving and what's coming up next.

Long term, my aim is to have no transmission at all - give it another 10-15 years and I expect to start seeing heavy duty electric drive axles and wheel motors start showing up at reasonable prices, and then I can go hybrid or even full electric; the 'lightweight' chassis of a 4104 with the torque and power of electric motors sounds like a fantastic ride to me.  I figure plenty of people on here have managed just fine with the old 4-speeds for decades, I can hang in there a while and reap the improved mileage and lower maintenance while I'm at it (and while my knees are still pretty young).

[luvrbus]

I see these buses sell all the time it is a given they will bring 5 to 10k less with a 4 speed and some are nicer conversions and better maintained 

[Knuckles]

Being a truck driver for over forty years i am familiar with almost every manual transmission out there in a wide range of equipment.  When my bus was professionally converted they rebuilt the engine and pulled the spicer in favour of a v730 automatic. I suppose it was because anybody paying over $250 grand for a coach would not want a manual transmission. I must say that those whining about the big spread between the top gears need to be more familiar with the way a 8v71 likes to operate. Rev it till it won't go no higher and it'll work a little better for you. The two strokes like to be operated like you are mad at them.  Verdict? I like the v730 more than the manual and my wife can drive it too!

[luvrbus]

Being a truck driver for over forty years i am familiar with almost every manual transmission out there in a wide range of equipment.  When my bus was professionally converted they rebuilt the engine and pulled the spicer in favour of a v730 automatic. I suppose it was because anybody paying over $250 grand for a coach would not want a manual transmission. I must say that those whining about the big spread between the top gears need to be more familiar with the way a 8v71 likes to operate. Rev it till it won't go no higher and it'll work a little better for you. The two strokes like to be operated like you are mad at them.  Verdict? I like the v730 more than the manual and my wife can drive it too!

No one is whining it is just a fact ,people spend time and money A timing a 8v71 with a 4 speed it is a waste of time and money it does no good because of the long split,the 7 speed that came later in buses was a huge improvement over the 4 speed 
 

[TomC]

When I was looking for my bus, I got real familiar with what a V730 looked like (since I could only afford a transit bus). Then after buying my bus I had the 5.53 rears taken out (58mph top speed) and had 4.56 installed (1900 @ 60mph, 2,400 @ 76mph). A V730 is a HT740 without 1st gear. After having my 8V-71 turbocharged and air to air intercooled, with 375hp and 1,125lb/ft torque, I'm quite pleased with the performance.

I'm converting my '85KW into a 40ft motorhome. I took out the 13spd at 1.2 million miles (original clutch) and installed a HT740. Even though I eliminated the 13spd overdrive, the direct 4th gear with 3.55 and 11R-24.5 (476rpm) yields 1,689 @ 60mph.
To answer the question-after 1.3 million miles of driving a 13spd, and seeing how other bus nuts struggle with only a 4 spd, I'm a firm Allison automatic believer. It's like driving a car with car like acceleration. Good Luck, TomC

[lostagain]

This is really a North American conversation! Most of the world outside of the US and Canada drive manual transmissions. European relatives when they come here to visit are surprised by all our vehicles being automatic.

The Allison World B500, now in it's 5th generation I think, is a great transmission in a bus. Very smooth, and it knows what gear to be in all the time. You can just put it in D and go.

A good manual is the 7 speed Eaton-Fuller. It was in some of the MCI Ds with the S60. Great combination.

Of course the Road Rangers are great in trucks: 10, 13, 15, 18 speed. Some bus nuts have installed those in their buses. I would love to have a 10 speed in a bus.

You still see buses with the ZF 12 speed auto. That is a rough shifting transmission.

I have the Allison HT740 in my bus. I mostly like it. Easy to drive, but you have to shift it manually. It is not very smart. People say how bullet proof it is. Mine has been good so far. It does put a lot of heat into the cooling system though. We didn't have to watch the temperature as much with the 4 speed manuals in the old days.

JC

[lvmci]

Hi All, driving on, getting stuck on, LA freeways during daylight, would convince most people to get an automatic transmission, not only on their buses, but cars and pickups, even had friends that got the few automatic motorcycles that exist.
  Clifford thanks for the idea to take the transmission cooler out of the engine, tom...

[Jeremy]

My bus has a 5-speed manual and almost have the reverse problem that other people are mentioning - the first gear is so low that the gearbox almost becomes a 4-speed as you can quite happily set-off in 2nd most of the time. The clutch in mine is air-assisted and so quite light

I like the manual but I'm sure I'd be equally happy with a modern automatic instead, and indeed my cars invariably have autos - but on the other hand, and unlike the cars, the bus is over 30 years old now and has an entirely mechanical engine etc, and I think the extra bit of control a clutch and manual gearbox give you can occasionally be a life saver when the engine is cold for instance

Jeremy