PD4151 questions

[hunter628]

Hi all! My name is Hunter and this is my first post here. I have located PD4151-267 and have a couple of questions to ask about it before I pull the trigger. Mainly wondering if its a good deal. The bus has been partially converted as you can see. it is plumbed for propane and has a 100 gallon propane tank. It comes with 2 brand new propane furnaces, 2 roof ac units, a brand new propane fridge and an Onan 4kw generator. The engine has a rebuilt blower and rebuilt injectors as of 6 years ago but he hasn't started it in about 4. It also got new tires 6 years ago but they have only gotten about 50 miles on them since. The front end has been converted to something with disc brakes from another bus. It has power steering added out of some military truck but the owner said it has a problem that something rubs and makes the steering jump. he wasnt great at explaining that. Cosmetically the body is extremely straight. The drivers window is cracked out and one of the windows behind the driver is broken out. It has the front arrow signals but not the back. The round glass in the back of the bus is there but it is just clear and doesnt have the "stop" light in the middle. Owner was offered $7k about a year ago and wouldve taken it but the guy never got the money together. Let me know what you think. I know there were only 357 of these made and Im not sure how many left so I can imagine parts are hard to come by.

Thanks for looking!
Hunter

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Wow!  This will make a great story for Bus Conversion Magazine.  Let me know if you decide to buy it and then take several before, during, and after photos and send them to me.  I would love to publish it. Not many people choose to take on a project like this, but I would love to do one myself if I was younger.

There is no stream too wide to cross and no mountains too high to climb if you have the ambition. :-)

Go for it!

[DoubleEagle]

It would be a lot of hard work and expense to restore this bus, but it does have an appealing look, and would be distinctive. I doubt that there are many people clamoring to grab this bus. I would not offer $7000 for it, best to start out much lower, like $1000 or $2000. Let the offer sit, and failing someone else making an offer, the seller might let it go. It is not a usable bus yet, and you have no idea if the engine and transmission are worthy. I would not go above scrap value until more is known about it.

[chessie4905]

I used to have a 1948 ACF Brill IC-41. Other than being gas engined, I feel it was far superior to the 37,4151's. Consider wisely before you buy. Disc brake conversion raises a red flag to me from the start. Might be a good job, but??. I wouldn't pay more than $2000 tops for it, assuming engines runs good and no other drive line issues. Also leaf springs ride rough, and things like leaves and shackles, and kingpins may be worn out. Limited storage space, column shift, small windows,etc. It wouldn't be worth it to me just to have a cool coach.

[richard5933]

No idea how the brakes are set up on the bus, but it was my understanding that the rear brakes on the 2-axle GM buses did most of the work - they've got bigger drums, have more weight on them, and have four tires on the ground. Do you know what he's got on the rear axle for brakes? Otherwise, you'll be dealing with some water intrusion issues and such on the interior from the looks of things. Might actually be easier to gut the interior and start over. I'd also come in with a really low bid and try and convince the seller to let it go before it rots into the ground under it.

[hunter628]

Thanks for all the info! If I did buy the bus I would gut it and start fresh. I want to build a tiny house in one to live in and travel. The guy drove it up from California when he bought it 6 years ago and says the PO has the engine rebuilt. It has the original rear brakes on it. I would not make an offer before I got it to run and inspect it more. It does have a couple leaks in the roof vents but looks pretty easy to replace. If it is a sting runner and everything else checks out would the price differ any? The guy doesn't have it listed it's just parked in the town I live in and I tracked the owner down.

[chessie4905]

If everything checks out and it is a strong runner, maybe $3000. But look over close. REAL CLOSE.

[chessie4905]

Oh, and if it isn't already titled as a motor home or equiv., You have that to deal with. And insurance. If it is still titled as a bus, you will have to purchase commercial vehicle insurance, unless there is a waiver for old vehicles. Check for insurance availability to own/ use. I already assume you will have NO issues on where you are going to park or store it while working on it.
I don't want to sound like a downer, but many new enthusiasts go out and buy one only to find they can't get insurance, have a place to park it, or have issues getting title changed. Good Luck.

[hunter628]

It is registered as an rv. I was figuring something in the ballpark of 4-5k based on all the extra new stuff it comes with. But if thats way out of line I won't bother. I have a buddy that is a diesel mechanic at the local mill and if anything came up with the engine he said he'd help me do an in frame on it. The only thing I would worry about is like you said the transmission. You guys are a wealth of advice!
Thanks
Hunter

[chessie4905]

Unless the engine works fine and no blue smoke after 4 or 5 miles of running to clear it out, even at idle, you are probably good to go. The trans are pretty much bullet proof. Just be advised that the transmission needs double clutched between the gears as the coaches have NON syncronized transmissions. I still wouldnt go over three grand. Your money though.

[hunter628]

I am gonna go take a more detailed look at her this week now that the snow is melted and I can roll around on the ground to check her underside. I will try to get info on the front end and report back!
Thanks
Hunter

[DoubleEagle]

Frozen ground might be preferable to sliding in mud, but in any event, you need to check it thoroughly inside and out. The price goes down if the engine is not running, but takes a nose dive if it is frozen up. 

[hunter628]

Its parked on a nice clean chunk of pavement so no mud for me! Im gonna bar the engine over and check for stuck injectors and try to get her fired up. But im nervous if i get it running he will jump the price on me. Any tips on avoiding that?

[chessie4905]

Take some nice sized sheets of cardboard along. Agree, if necessary, in writing on a price if it starts and runs ok.

[DoubleEagle]

Be very careful in barring it over, if the engine has fuel prime, it can start with very little rotation. Bar first, prime later. I agree on setting prices before hand, X dollars as is, Y dollars if it turns over, and Z dollars if it runs without serious problems. You have to decide if you would take it as it is, and whether you have the capability to change the engine and/or transmission.