Installing a base plate and wiring for TOAD

Oonrahnjay · December 09, 2018, 11:10:25 AM

Quote from: Geoff on December 09, 2018, 08:36:15 AMThe 5-speed manual transmissions that have been around for over 20 years don't get lube at the rear bearing when towed. The older 4-speeds and 3-speeds do get lube when towed.

One tech letter from VW says that the oil pump is driven off the input drive shaft from the engine so if it's being towed, there is no pressure. One recommendation (since the pump is providing oil to all of the pressure-fed bearings) is to idle the engine for 5 minutes of every hour while you're towing. That works but it would drive me insane. Most people just tow them and hope for the best. I've never heard of anyone who had genuine trouble, even after towing a Jetta/Golf/Cabrio 5-speed for thousands of miles.
I guess another way that would "work" would be to leave it in 5th gear and block the clutch pedal down. THAT would make me crazier than fartin about with sporadic idling.

Geoff · December 09, 2018, 01:01:28 PM

The imput shaft has to turn to oil the bearings in the transmission. Pushing the clutch in defeats that process. Besides a driveline disconnect, Remco sells transmission fluid pumps that you can use in place of the driveline disconnect (with automatics).

I bit the bullet and got a driveline disconnect for my 5-speed Sonoma pick up. Now I no longer have the PU and can't find a buyer for the disconnect and tow bracket.

Oonrahnjay · December 09, 2018, 01:19:45 PM

Quote from: Geoff on December 09, 2018, 01:01:28 PMThe imput shaft has to turn to oil the bearings in the transmission. Pushing the clutch in defeats that process. ...

I think the idea is that the entire transmission turns as the vehicle is being towed and that spins the input shaft (from the "back side") as long as the clutch isn't connected to the engine. Or is there an output shaft from the engine that had the oiler on the engine side of the clutch??? Anyway, as I said, I can't stand the idea of trying that, anyway.
Sorry about being stuck with the plate and disconnect. Keep the idea floating out there and maybe you'll find someone who would like to get them. I bought my first plate from Jim in the mountains of NC. He was happy to sell it and I was happy to get it!
I haven't even looked to see if there's a FWD disconnect for a Jetta but I'd probably continue to do what I do and expect no problems, even if I could find a disconnect.

Skykingrob · December 09, 2018, 02:42:39 PM

Hello Branderson
I just completed a Blue Ox install on an 05 Jeep Liberty. The hardest part of the install was removing the bumper cover. Nothing related to the hitch was a problem, even drilling the two holes through the frame. Blue Ox offers a wiring kit that is the wire, bulbs, sockets, cable ends all together in one for about $60. Just start at the front of the vehicle and using the stick on zip tie brackets stuck to the frame, work the wire to the back zip tying it, remove the tail light housing, drill a hole for the socket to mount in and you're done.
The local hitch install shop wanted $720 to do the install for the hitch and another $150 for the light kit. It took me 2 days to do it all. I had never done it before but the Blue Ox instructions are very complete with pics also. I also had the benefit that there was a You Tube video I could watch. Here is a link to a You Tube video by etrailer.com for a 2003 VW jetta Blue Ox hitch install. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbfhF-Voj8E
Combining the video and the Blue Ox instructions gave me a good complete understanding of the install.

Rob
91 Prevost
Missouri

Jim Blackwood · December 10, 2018, 09:21:22 AM

I used to flat tow a Samurai. Usually I would put the 4wd shifter in neutral and only ever had one issue when one day I forgot to do that and the shifter was in gear. Never discovered it until the next stop for gas, but the engine fired right up and ran fine. Wasn't enough of a drag to even notice it. But it wasn't in high gear so that little engine was being seriously over-revved. I think it was in 1st gear. Really surprised it didn't blow up.

Years later the pin sheared off the camshaft pulley, I think there may have been a connection.

So be cautious.

I think the BW35 may have been one of the very last automatic transmissions to have a tailshaft operated oil pump. It was claimed you could bump start them. But I'm not sure they all had it. Otherwise any automatic is going to eventually run dry being towed. Manuals are not so bad because the countershaft sits in oil and will throw it around inside the tranny. Many manual transmissions have no oil pump, it is the rule rather than the exception. The only thing inside that is not turning is the input shaft.

Jim

Branderson · December 11, 2018, 09:44:29 AM

I did a lot of research on VW jettas and towing and it seemed like only the 5 speeds are flat towable and not much newer than my 2012. I really wanted the diesel jetta b/c it gets better gas mileage but I could never get a solid idea of why the typical manual can't be flat towed for the newer models. However, I'm not that mechanically inclined.

It was to the point I just thought the newer models steering wheel would lock up after a certain amount of time and there was no way to keep it unlocked b/c of all the push start features these days.

Oonrahnjay · December 11, 2018, 11:52:28 AM

Quote from: Branderson on December 11, 2018, 09:44:29 AM
I did a lot of research on VW jettas and towing and it seemed like only the 5 speeds are flat towable and not much newer than my 2012. I really wanted the diesel jetta b/c it gets better gas mileage but I could never get a solid idea of why the typical manual can't be flat towed for the newer models. However, I'm not that mechanically inclined.

It was to the point I just thought the newer models steering wheel would lock up after a certain amount of time and there was no way to keep it unlocked b/c of all the push start features these days.

As Geoff and I were discussing above, the reason that VW gave for recommending no flat-towing on A3 and A4 Jettas with a 5 speed manual was that the rear bearing was designed to be lubricated by a pressure pump. This pump doesn't work when the vehicle is towed in neutral. There is enough electronic stuff-to-go-wrong on my '03 that I am SO glad that I don't have anything newer. My wife has an '18 Mazda 3 with lane warning, no-touch keys, push-start, tire pressure warning, passing-car alerts on the side mirrors, etc. and it's always throwing error codes; nothing has actually ever failed to work or caused any real problem but I'm happy to stay with ordinary/mechanical as possible.
And as I also mentioned, a few people have used the 1999 - 2006 TDIs as toad vehicles with the thought that - esp. for an unloaded bearing - splash is good enough to lube the bearings even though the pump isn't running and nobody has seen any troubles. Are we all about to burn our transmissions out in the next 6 months? Maybe, but so far it's been OK. On the other hand, the newer ones (from about 2009 - on) are very different in design principles and I wouldn't want to tow one of those.

Branderson · December 11, 2018, 12:53:45 PM

I'm not arguing with you but I was told that there shouldn't be a need for lubrication when the manual is in neutral. Then again, I'm not sure how it all works. You keep mentioning 5 speeds but I believe it was the 6 speeds that are not recommended to get flat towed. My 5 speed owners manual does allow for flat towing.

I wish I would have went with the TDI but I didn't want to gamble with it.

I really don't understand why newer cars are going away from flat towable. I had a 06 CRV and wanted to get something newer that I could use as a work driver instead of logging so many miles on my truck.

Whoever it was that mentioned jeeps nailed it. The problem with that is jeeps are typically more expensive and don't have great mpg.

Geoff · December 11, 2018, 01:13:58 PM

Quote from: Branderson on December 11, 2018, 12:53:45 PM
I'm not arguing with you but I was told that there shouldn't be a need for lubrication when the manual is in neutral. Then again, I'm not sure how it all works. You keep mentioning 5 speeds but I believe it was the 6 speeds that are not recommended to get flat towed. My 5 speed owners manual does allow for flat towing.

I wish I would have went with the TDI but I didn't want to gamble with it.

I really don't understand why newer cars are going away from flat towable. I had a 06 CRV and wanted to get something newer that I could use as a work driver instead of logging so many miles on my truck.

Whoever it was that mentioned jeeps nailed it. The problem with that is jeeps are typically more expensive and don't have great mpg.

If your owner's manual says you can tow you 5 speed in neutral, then it must be designed to be flat towed. all we are saying is that most 5 speeds do not allow for flat towing.

dtcerrato · December 16, 2018, 09:15:30 AM

Most of what you said about toads & Jeep's in general is accurate. When we replaced our giant full size toad (05 GMC Sierra XLT Quadratrac 4x4 - camper shelled) with the 09 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The engine displacement grew (5.3L to 5.7 L Hemi) & the mpg also grew from 16.3 to 18+. The words "transfer case" are your friend when it comes to flat towing. We would have always liked Jake's on the bus (but don't have) but the next best move is putting supplemental braking on the Jeep... Lots of variables out there.

Jim Blackwood · December 16, 2018, 12:41:23 PM

I liked the post that mentioned a Rover with 4 wheel unlockable hubs. Could anyone elaborate on that? It seems to me that having hubs on the drive axle(s) that can unlock would be the ultimate answer.

Jim

Dave5Cs · December 16, 2018, 01:56:24 PM

Warn make locking/unlocking hubs. Only some 4x4 can use them but I had a Bronco 73 that you just take the center out if it was self locking or fulltime 4WD and put those in pretty simple but only some vehicles can use them. You just turn them to lock or unlock. They put it into free wheel and will save on fuel to because you only have one axle turning gears instead of two.

Older Toyota trucks come stock with them and some Jeeps.

chessie4905 · December 17, 2018, 06:30:41 AM

I have them on my 03 Vitara automatic. Easy bolt on. Twist of knob to engage/ disengage.Same as in pictures, but mine has a removable hardtop, instead of soft top.

http://gtcarlot.com/colors/car/20010360.html

Jim Blackwood · December 17, 2018, 08:28:57 AM

Yeah but aren't those for the front axle? I've not seen any locking hubs for the rear axle.

Jim

DoubleEagle · December 17, 2018, 09:59:12 AM

One of the few vehicles that has the same hub on front and rear are the Series Land Rovers (1940's - 1970's). It makes flat towing easy with four lock-outs. There might be others, but I have not run across them.