Michelin X Line Energy Z

HB of CJ · November 16, 2018, 01:07:53 PM

Respectfully ...

Another point of view. Do you have any heavy duty truck wrecking or recycling yards nearby you? Places where they would have used "take offs" sets of tires and wheels from heavy trucks that do not need them any more. Wrecks or burn outs.

Sometimes you can find complete sets of 10 or perhaps 8 tires and wheels. Sometimes aluminum wheels with mounted near new tires. One would have to be careful looking for various types of damage. Age. Dents, flat spots, out of round.

Also consider that your used tires and perhaps wheels could find use off road for the independent frugal operator. Quarry or mining use. Anyhow ... just another way of having fun and saving money with your Bus Conversion. Just me here.

TomC · November 16, 2018, 01:39:47 PM

As I've said many times, weigh your bus by axle. Most of us will not have enough weight on board to justify the expense of 315's, or for that matter even 12's. 11R-22.5's are much more readily available on the road. Both sets of recent tires, I went 12 years with no problems. I now have Hankook tires-mainly because Freightliner uses Hankook's as their standard tire, and they were $1,500 less than Michelin. Hankooks ride a bit rougher, but not by much over the Michelins. Look into 11R-22.5 16ply for your bus. I had 12R-22.5 on my bus, and switched to 11R-24.5's for highest available street tire. Good Luck, TomC

richard5933 · November 16, 2018, 02:04:47 PM

Quote from: TomC on November 16, 2018, 01:39:47 PM
As I've said many times, weigh your bus by axle. Most of us will not have enough weight on board to justify the expense of 315's, or for that matter even 12's. 11R-22.5's are much more readily available on the road.

The weight limits on the 11R22.5 tires would probably work for us, but the front would not give us much head room without running 110-115 psi. We're at about 11,500 lbs on the front. We did that on the 4106 and found the ride was much harder than with our current tires running at 95 psi.

The bigger problem with the 11R22.5 tires is ground clearance though. Our black tank valve is routed straight out the bottom. There is a fitting just above the floor aiming straight down. To dump, I screw a 45-degree adapter to the bottom and then attach our dump hose. There have been a few times when it was nearly impossible to get the thing connected as with the 315s mounted on the bus, especially if the ground around the dump site isn't flat. Going to 11R22.5 would lower the bus about an inch, and that would make it really difficult to dump the tank.

The 12R22.5 tires have about the same diameter as the 315s, so there should be no issue there. What I've seen in the Toyo specs for the M170 tires in 12R22.5 size is that they have two widths available. One has a loaded width of 13.0" and another has a loaded width of 13.4".

The 13.0" wide tires would be the ones I'd go with, as the 13.4" variant is really no different than the 315/80R22.5 at all. The only difference between the wider of the 12R22.5 tires and the 315s is the load rating. The 315s are 20-ply with an L rating, and the 12R22.5 are 16-ply with an L rating.

Bill Gerrie · November 16, 2018, 04:13:42 PM

As Tomc mentions "have your bus weighed by wheel location" That is the only way to know for sure the weight on the individual tire. I changed to 11R22.5 years ago and while travelling in North Carolina I had a blow out. It was called a zipper tear due to overloading. Goodyear explained to me that a vehicle with air suspension can overload one side by 50% as the vehicle sways side to side. Since than I switched to 12R22.5 and never had anymore issues.

richard5933 · November 16, 2018, 04:24:55 PM

Quote from: Bill Gerrie on November 16, 2018, 04:13:42 PM
As Tomc mentions "have your bus weighed by wheel location" That is the only way to know for sure the weight on the individual tire. I changed to 11R22.5 years ago and while travelling in North Carolina I had a blow out. It was called a zipper tear due to overloading. Goodyear explained to me that a vehicle with air suspension can overload one side by 50% as the vehicle sways side to side. Since than I switched to 12R22.5 and never had anymore issues.

If the weight on a side of the bus can increase by as much as 50% when the bus sways, then weighing the bus when stationary would have only limited value. Or, was the tech at Goodyear expecting us to get tires with 50% extra capacity?

Either way, right now I'm leaning (no pun intended, but it works) towards the 12R22.5 tires, and their load rating at only 105 psi would be about 13,200. Since the axle weighs in at approx 11,600 it would seem like adequate head room.

Of course, if I have to provide for 50% head room, then I might as well stick with the 315s, but that really seems like too much tire.

eagle19952 · November 16, 2018, 09:03:50 PM

The problem with the tires being able to contact the air bags is easily remedied by adjusting the stop nut.

that stop isn't put there to stop tire rub....
not sure I'd do that.

eagle19952 · November 16, 2018, 09:08:28 PM

If the weight on a side of the bus can increase by as much as 50% when the bus sways, then weighing the bus when stationary would have only limited value. Or, was the tech at Goodyear expecting us to get tires with 50% extra capacity?

Pretty sure Goodyear figured that in to their design/engineering.
Imagine what a C5 Galaxy weighs on impact.
i mean landing

Jim Blackwood · November 16, 2018, 10:02:14 PM

The C5 doesn't impact. It merely floats down to the runway like a feather. Hard to believe without sitting all day watching them. Like Dumbo.

So anyone know what the empty axle loads are on the DL3?

Jim

richard5933 · November 17, 2018, 02:44:42 AM

Quote from: eagle19952 on November 16, 2018, 09:03:50 PM
The problem with the tires being able to contact the air bags is easily remedied by adjusting the stop nut.

that stop isn't put there to stop tire rub....
not sure I'd do that.

Yeah - after reading through the manual more thoroughly, it's not just as simple as adjusting the stop nut. In addition, the power steering itself must have adjustments made to place the pressure limit in the correct point so that the tire stop moving prior to touching the stop nuts. Starting to sound more complex to me and perhaps something akin to opening that proverbial bag of worms.

Perhaps I need to add one item to the list until I change to the proper size tire:

-Drive with extreme caution while doing close-quarter maneuvers in parking lots and such.

As far as I know, I've only had the wheels turned to the extreme left or right only a couple of times, and those were when trying to get out of tight parking areas. In normal driving I don't think I've come close. Of course, if I spent more time doing city driving that could change so I'll have to be aware.

Always the possibility that I put the 12R22.5 tires on there and still have the problem, so I'll still have to check and remedy if so.

Bill Gerrie · November 17, 2018, 05:51:13 AM

A friend of mine just sold his 4107 and it came with 12R22.5 tires. He never had any rub issues and I'm sure the 4108 is the identical chassis. 12R22.5 XZA can go to 120 psi and 7390 lbs single and 6780 dual. More then enough. The adjustment for the wheel stops and the pressure release on the Sheppard box is very simple so you don't take a chance on rubbing the air bags..

luvrbus · November 17, 2018, 06:04:26 AM

Quote from: Jim Blackwood on November 16, 2018, 10:02:14 PM
The C5 doesn't impact. It merely floats down to the runway like a feather. Hard to believe without sitting all day watching them. Like Dumbo.

So anyone know what the empty axle loads are on the DL3?

Jim

Curb weight (empty) is 35,100 lbs on a DL3, you want the empty weight for ea axle ?,GVW is 44,000 lbs with 12Rx22.5 and 48,000 lbs with the 315/80x22.5 tires

TomC · November 17, 2018, 07:53:03 AM

Here's the actual difference between the 12R and 11R both 16ply rated-based on the Michelin XZE.
12R- loaded radius is 19.8" and 11,600lbs would be 90psi
11R- loaded radius is 19.2" and 11,600lbs would be 100psi.
So running 11R's you'd loose 6/10" in height and have to run 10 more psi-in my book that's well worth the convenience factor of having 11R's instead of 12R's. Good Luck, TomC

luvrbus · November 17, 2018, 08:09:33 AM

A highway coach is going to handle much better with the 12r's than a 11r tire ,most of the people I know that went to the 11R x 22.5 went back to the 12r x 22.5 on the next set of tires

buswarrior · November 17, 2018, 08:42:19 AM

Re: tire rubbing the internals...

Same 12R size tire, one Goodyear, one Michelin,

One of them would rub one of the bars under an MC8, one wouldn't.

Just the nature of the beasts, slightly different bulge, one just touched, the other didn't.

Noticed the dirt missing shortly after tire swap, swap 'em back, dirt began to accumulate again.

MC8 steer like battleships, so the mechanics had it freed up as far out as we dared, when this was discovered.

Interesting the subtle difference between two "same size" tires.

Experiment and adjust.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

luvrbus · November 17, 2018, 09:25:03 AM

Quote from: TomC on November 17, 2018, 07:53:03 AM
Here's the actual difference between the 12R and 11R both 16ply rated-based on the Michelin XZE.
12R- loaded radius is 19.8" and 11,600lbs would be 90psi
11R- loaded radius is 19.2" and 11,600lbs would be 100psi.
So running 11R's you'd loose 6/10" in height and have to run 10 more psi-in my book that's well worth the convenience factor of having 11R's instead of 12R's. Good Luck, TomC

I don't understand the 6/10 of a inch all tires the side walls are 90% of the tread width,the 11R x 24.5 is about the same height as the 12R x 22.5 but with the naked eye you can see the difference in a 11R x 22.5 vs a 12r x 22.5