P8M4108a OTR a/c question

[luvrbus]

LOL he may be changing to 134,I was at the supply house a 30lb tank of 22 virgin (pure Freon) not the recycled crap was $879.00 a 10 lb tank cost $315.00 and a 1lb can cost $175.00 and they say it is going up every day 

[richard5933]

From what I read changing from R22 to 134 is not a simple process. Oil is not compatible, and many seals and other parts must be changed out.

Anyone changed a GM with a Frigidaire system from R22 to 134?

BTW, the prices you saw at the supply house are nearly identical to what Luke charged the previous owner to do the work last August. ($28/lb) Not sure about the 'going up every day' part.

[luvrbus]

Check the date on the compressor they started 20 years ago making the Carrier compatible with 134,oil is cheap so are the o-rings the dryer is little on the high side price wise and some hoses need to be changed FWIW Prevost was doing the change over for 3 k a few years ago and that is a high price shop.Drawing the system down to 30 is a challenge the H/F cheap pump dosen't cut it   

[chessie4905]

There are better refrigerant drop in's to replace the r-22 in your use. You need to discuss this with Luke or another refrigerant service place or guy. Check on that compressor as a rebuilt to see what ref. it is then designed to use.
The source I supplied in upper post explains why R-22 is getting more costly and 2020 being the phase out date.

[chessie4905]

Here is what MCI changes when a refrigerant change is done.
http://www.mcicoach.com/service-support/serviceCoachExpress.htm

I would imagine Luke may charge 1500 to 5000 dollars to switch yours over. Of course, that depends on how complete a job he does.
Some places may just replace the o-rings, oil, flush system and refill with new ref. Back when we were converting r-12 to r-134, many were just throwing in the new ref. instead of doing it correctly. Some got away with cutting corners, some didn't. From looking online, it appears most are using the r-134  In any event, you should consider doing your own recharging, at least after changing over if you intend to maintain your otr ac system.

[richard5933]

I know that there are a few alternative refrigerants to r22, and that some may or not be compatible with the equipment in this bus. It is all OEM and from 1974, and other than a leak somewhere in pretty good working order.

From what I've read in the past few days, 134 is NOT the ideal replacement for r22. It seems to be used often in place of r12, but not r22. I'll have to do some research on this.

For now, I'm hoping that the shop can locate the leak and then just refill. If Luke was unable to locate the leak last summer it must have been either tiny or in an out-of-the way area. Hopefully this time the shop here will be able to find it (and hopefully it will be something easy)

Like many others, our budget for this year is spent and I'm keeping what's left to fund any needed maintenance or repairs that need to be done over the next months. The bus was in great shape when we got it last fall, but it has been a heavy lift budget wise to get all the systems updated so quickly and get things ready for this summer's travels. I think that we've accomplished nearly everything on our list, and the things we couldn't get to are on the list for fall and early next spring.

[daddysgirl]

From the MCI link, that is almost exactly what we did. But we also put in a new compressor.
Just a thought from the maintenance book...it says to use cold, no-pressure water and possibly aluminum cleaner for the condenser. It specifically says no steam cleaning, FWIW.

[luvrbus]

From what I read changing from R22 to 134 is not a simple process. Oil is not compatible, and many seals and other parts must be changed out.

Anyone changed a GM with a Frigidaire system from R22 to 134?

BTW, the prices you saw at the supply house are nearly identical to what Luke charged the previous owner to do the work last August. ($28/lb) Not sure about the 'going up every day' part.

you won't buy virgin (pure) R22 today for $28/lb unless it is a 30 lb tank,the recycled sh** yea, EPA has shut the door on the cheap China and Mexico Freon.You buy a 30lb tank if you don't use it all it leaks out of the tank in about a year because of the cheap plastic valve they install on the tanks I cap my tanks and still loose the Freon .These low end tour operators from Mexico and the US too you can walk by one and smell the Propane they use in the systems how stupid is that.Richard to get a handle on the your deal just call Welch in Ga he can answer any questions you have about AC in a bus   

[richard5933]

you won't buy virgin (pure) R22 today for $28/lb unless it is a 30 lb tank,the recycled sh** yea, EPA has shut the door on the cheap China and Mexico Freon.You buy a 30lb tank if you don't use it all it leaks out of the tank in about a year because of the cheap plastic valve they install on the tanks I cap my tanks and still loose the Freon .These low end tour operators from Mexico and the US too you can walk by one and smell the Propane they use in the systems how stupid is that.Richard to get a handle on the your deal just call Welch in Ga he can answer any questions you have about AC in a bus 

The shop that has the bus to do the work does a/c work for many of the charter companies around here. I have to assume that they are buying it in 30 lb or larger sizes.

[richard5933]

Good news and bad news...

Good news is that the shop says they found the leaks and the problems. Apparently the compressor was leaking out the end, the dryer is bad/leaking (not sure what he said), and there is one other part needing replacement (I think he said evaporator valve or expansion valve but not sure). Right now it's a waiting game for the parts department to hunt down the necessary parts and put together the estimate. Once I see that I will know specifically what the problems are. I did provide them with a service manual, a parts manual, and Luke's contact information to help them get what they need.

Bad news is that they found the leaks and the problems. Looks like I'd better get ready to let the cash begin flowing...

I've asked them to let me know how much more it would be to change to a newer refrigerant at this time since we're going to change the compressor. The service desk guy's initial gut reaction was 'that would be much more'. Won't know for sure till they get it figured out. Of course, if they did find the leaks then perhaps it will buy us a few years of service on the current a/c??

Sounds like this is one of those times we're going to have to pay for the privilege of owning a bus with so few miles, since lack of use may have starved the parts of the needed lubrication, causing things to go bad. Just a guess. Glad I held back some cash for things that pop up.

And yes, I'm still wanting to keep the OTR a/c functional. We've got two basement a/c units and a generator, but I'm sure you've already read that those aren't all seeing eye-to-eye right now. If we have to replace the basement units at some point, we're considering installing two roof-top units and a dedicated 24v inverter which can run them while on the road. That's for a much later time though.

[luvrbus]

Road air is expensive to keep running it buses,it would be hard for me to give up a road air that just needed a few repairs,sounds like the R22 is going to be the cheap part of that repair Richard good luck

[Oonrahnjay]

...  I'm still wanting to keep the OTR a/c functional. We've got two basement a/c units and a generator, but I'm sure you've already read that those aren't all seeing eye-to-eye right now...

     Sorry about the bad news parts.  Is there any chance you can get the basement a/c units rehabbed for not much $$$.  If possible, that might be a good stop-gap.  Best wishes with the next parts in this process.

[eagle19952]

      Is there any chance you can get the basement a/c units rehabbed for not much $$$.

Define not much $$$.

I said to heck with it and had  new compressor, new evaporator, condensate drain tray, dryer, acid flush, and recharge done on my 22 year old 3T basement air 3 years ago. It was limping, mostly because the condensate tray (metal) was leaking inside the bus and the compressor was hitting mucho amps to start (had hard start caps, ate a start cap, run cap was fine),and and and..it was worn...But I am confident that my $1600.00 will get me to end of life for this bus...AND the day is coming that no amount of money will get you R-22 parts in the USA. If you can fix what you have do it
Granted it wasn't OTR, but it wasn't cheap either...

[Oonrahnjay]

Define not much $$$. ... 

      Yeah, that's big the issue.  But Richard was saying that availale $$$ right now is a major consideration.  It's all a balanced juggle -- and probably one of those things for which there is no good answer.

[richard5933]

To be honest, my big worry right now is just parts availability. I'm not sure if the compressor, etc., that they need can be found. To me it doesn't seem like a compressor, dryer, and assorted parts should be hard to find, but I'm only guessing.