1973 05 Eagle Wheel / Nut assembly questions

[Gary LaBombard]

Hey Guys, Me again,
I have two questions to ask concerning reassembly of my wheels on my Eagle after 14 years on blocks.  I am enclosing photos of the nuts from my disassembly and need to ask those that know before getting all new lug nuts.  I have 5 lug nuts on each wheel that are similar to those on the left of the photos and 5 of the lug nuts on the right hand side of photo.  I like the one's on the left as it looks to me like more support surface of the nuts and not all holding pressure is on the chamber of the nuts like the ones on the right.  That is only my opinion, what do I Know.  Anyhow, is there a reason for using two different types of assembly nuts?  Which style should I use?  Or do I use Both and just stagger them like was on my original assembly? 

Question #2, on the dual drive wheel assembly, do you torque the INNER nut or when you torque the outer nut this in turn torques or tightens the inner nut as well?  If you do torque the inner nut, what torque value do you use. 

I am near ready to assemble my OLD tires just to move the bus in and out of shop to prep for paint which will take a long time as I have a lot of work there to do as usual. I will put on new tires and aluminum rims after bus is done painting to protect them from overspray etc.  Old tires are virtually no good to anyone, Rims were (WELDED) in areas????
Thanks ahead of time. 

[luvrbus]

Gary,go with the standard nut on the right Eagle and MCI both tried the mixed 5 of the severe duty nuts and 5 of the standard on each wheel you don't need those just the standard nut for a buck a piece.
LOL I won't go into the torque because I use never seize,you cannot get a good torque on the wheels though using the severe and standard nut together that is why they stopped using that setup plus the severe nuts don't always seat good in the wheels    

[Gary LaBombard]

Cliff, what about the torque of the inner nuts when assembled on the drive wheels?

[buswarrior]

Gary, there are online resources for proper wheel installation procedures.

You have to do those two-fastener rears correctly, just about all the "wheel-off" stories involve that style of fastener, stud pilot is the name.

This is an extensive manual on everything wheels and tires, the stud pilot fasteners stuff is around page 40:

https://www.accuridecorp.com/files/2012/10/Accuride-Wheels-Rim_Wheel-Safety-and-Service-Manual-ACC7-0002-Rev-4-06-22-12.pdf


A good article on the problems of wheel-offs, and some of the maintenance issues that busnuts are often unaware:

http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/aftermarket/article/story/2013/10/keeping-your-wheels-on.aspx

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Gary LaBombard]

buswarrior,
thanks for the links and information on one of them.  the one I am posting here would not let me open it up?? https://www.accuridecorp.com/files/2012/10/Accuride-Wheels-Rim_Wheel-Safety-and-Service-Manual-ACC7-0002-Rev-4-06-22-12.pdf  

 I will re torque my wheels after the fist 50-100 miles as recommended.  I am trying my darndest to do everything as correctly as recommended, but I am sure I will forget something. I will try to google on my end about more information just to be informed if anything and safe.  Man wrestling with those tires to put on is a real bear for a 72 year old man.  I have 4 of them on now, two in front and one drive side.  I will not mount the bogie as I am only moving my bus in the yard for maybe another darn year so I can paint it etc.  I have a lot to do but my lifetime left is getting shorter.  Wish me luck.  Thanks again for information.  

Buswarrior, I just googled for information and everything I get that has information is from (accuride.com), BUT nothing will open up for the same reason as the one you sent me??  What gives I wonder.   

[luvrbus]

If you are using FoxFire for a browser unblock the popup 

[eagle19952]

buswarrior,
thanks for the links and information on one of them.  the one I am posting here would not let me open it up?? https://www.accuridecorp.com/files/2012/10/Accuride-Wheels-Rim_Wheel-Safety-and-Service-Manual-ACC7-0002-Rev-4-06-22-12.pdf  

I will re torque my wheels after the fist 50-100 miles as recommended.  I am trying my darndest to do everything as correctly as recommended, but I am sure I will forget something. I will try to google on my end about more information just to be informed if anything and safe.  Man wrestling with those tires to put on is a real bear for a 72 year old man.  I have 4 of them on now, two in front and one drive side.  I will not mount the bogie as I am only moving my bus in the yard for maybe another darn year so I can paint it etc.  I have a lot to do but my lifetime left is getting shorter.  Wish me luck.  Thanks again for information.  

Buswarrior, I just googled for information and everything I get that has information is from (accuride.com), BUT nothing will open up for the same reason as the one you sent me??  What gives I wonder.  

hmmm.
they open for me
do you have adobe reader updated ?
WIN 10
Chrome
or Edge
both work for me.
I use AdBlock.

[Boomer]

Somewhat of a moot point Gary.  When you toss the steel wheels you will need the aluminum thimbles (inner nuts) on the drive axle anyway.  They are different than the inner nuts for steel wheels, make sure you get the right ones, and long enough for your outer alum wheels.  UNLESS of course you are going to run steel on the inside, then you would run the steel wheel thimbles, just longer to accommodate the outer alum wheel.  All outer nuts are the same, and you'll need longer studs on the front and tag.  Like Cliff, I run never seize and have for over 50 years. Don't really enjoy cutting off broken thimbles.  Let the flaming begin.

[Gary LaBombard]

boomer,
I am trying to post a page from my 05 Eagle maintenance manual, If I get to post this, read item #3  Paragraph #4.  I was not aware I had to change the studs on the front and bogie wheels, previous owner of Tires said he did not so I will wait till I put on a Alum tire.  On the dual drive wheel I have the extended inner nuts already from the PO.  anyhow my maint. manual Does say to lubricate the studs and nuts with Texaco Molytex #2 or equivalent.  I am a believer of lube, torquing dry nuts on metal does not make sense to me and I am sure you have to do damage to the wheels if steel or Aluminum when torqued from 450-500 ft. lb.  just saying as my opinion, not professional opinion.

[chessie4905]

Many nuts are torqued to fasteners dry. The issue is the major difference in clamping force between lubed vs. dry. Unfortunately the wheel manufacturers don't list torque of lubed vs. dry that I've seen. Probably because what is used to lubricate. Oil, neverseize, moly, grease....

[buswarrior]

For those with no previous fasteners background...

There has been several decades worth of scientific research done on the reasons wheels come off trucks and buses.

You can imagine the motivation on both the plaintiff and the defendants' sides.

There is several evenings worth of reading, if the topic interests you.

In short, you can permanently damage the studs by tightening them too much, and they snap. You can get them to loosen off if you don't tighten them enough. Dirty mating surfaces, too much paint, rust scale, etc can let the fasteners loosen off. Excess lube on the threads can lead to over-tightening when mixed with uncontrolled air guns.

So, current best practice recommended by manufacturers: all surfaces clean, scale free, lightly painted one coat, threads clean, 3 drops of oil onto threads, fasteners tightened with a torque wrench, NOT a bloody big air gun...

I repeat; NOT a bloody big air gun.

Proper wheel torque can be inexpensive and simple for a busnut. To get 500 foot-pounds of twist, do some math: a 200 lb busnut can lean all of their weight on a pipe extension to the wheel lug wrench out at the 2 foot and a half, or 30 inches, and make 500 foot pounds. Momentarily in the air on the pipe, no bounce required. That's 500.

No expensive tools or re-calibrations required.

Happy coaching!
Buswarrior