Boiling Batteries

[chessie4905]

Gary, like it or not, you need to check water level without fail once a month while in use. After some experience, you may be able to stretch it to every two months. Normal charging and discharging is going to consume water. Once a cell gets dry, the dry part is destroyed as to being useful anymore and battery will have less capacity. The charger doesn't know this, so tries to charge group of batteries. Trying to bring  them up to total charge, resulting in rest of batteries constantly receiving charge, getting hot and consuming more water.
You may consider gel cell batteries, as they don't have any water issue to replenish, are pretty much maintenance free and are pretty expensive.Very costly. Some here swear by them. They do have an issue of a possible thermal runaway in some type of situation which isn't totally understood.(discussed a couple of months ago by Clifford and others)

[buswarrior]

Some diagnosis of the murder suspects BEFORE you subject more new batteries to their da$tardly deed$...

Digital multi-meter and check what voltages are being applied by the charging equipment.

Disconnect/bypass the batteries identified as having bad cells.

Even if you are down to a single, try to get the charger in a position to prove it was fooled into boiling 'em, and not boiling 'em on purpose.

Yes, golf cart batteries are a common solution for busnuts for many good reasons.

As for finding an "expert"... uh, don't you have a Board full of them right here?

Ultimately, the wetware is what murders batteries, time to get $mart?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

I am seriously considering getting a battery watering system. They are not cheap but they are cheaper than buying new batteries every two years.  Can anyone recommend a good system? I used to have gel cells but they are not in my pay grade now.  Does anyone know what the Gel Cell golf cart batteries go for now?  Used to be $170 each, but I heard they are about twice that now.

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Also, I took one of my 4D batteries out of the circuit that was boiling so much.  Do I need to change the Amps on my charger to charge slower or anything till I can replace the batteries later this week?

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

Here is a video I took yesterday for your viewing pleasure. Pretty scary. Not sure if it could blow up, but I definitely wore my safety goggles. http://busconversionsstore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Battery-Boiling.mp4

[buswarrior]

Good Grief, Charlie Brown!

What is the charging device that is driving this adventure? What are you using for a SOC - state of charge monitor?

Don't go adding more hardware, before the stuff you have is evaluated, and we kick your a$$ for not watering more regularly...

This may be an easy fix?

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Slug]

Worst name ever given to a battery "MAINTENANCE FREE"
They all need there checking every month acid and gravity checks for those that have caps and maintenance free the voltage needs checking with each battery disconnected fully charged and rested to check the voltage recommended by the battery manufacture for that type of battery
Keep a log book page for every battery you have
Batteries in strings will show the full charge voltage even with say 2 failed battery in a string of 6, if left that way for a period of time will kill all the batteries
If an one cell has boiled dry in the battery that cell is dead and will never recover. What usually happens is a bit of oxide has come away either vibration or when the lead paste was mixed, the acid was run in to fast and caused a raw oxide ball to form (the paste should be disposed of as every battery made with it will fail) these are only the size of a pin end and the acid will boil
its crucial that every battery be treated as its own source of power i.e. 12v as 2 12v batteries will hide a 10v failed one till its to late Disconect and Check
Down load How to maintain your Deep Cycle Batteries from the manufacture and understand they need looking after and document it. You wouldn't drive a car a long distance without a fuel gauge Just this one is on paper
Battery are like Lawn Mowers they get abused till they STOP
Spent a quite a few years at Dunlop Batteries R+D   

[Dave5Cs]

I agree with BW, you need to check the whole system before you start replacing Batteries. Sure do a load test on them but something in the system is make it do this. All ends should be taken off and cleaned both terminals and cables etc. Inverter setting checked to make sure they are not to high. A good SOC meter installed so you can monitor the State of Charge when these events go on if they continue. Check your ground on your inverter also if there is one. Check your disconnect switch to see if it is dirty or ground shorting etc. Any other equalizers in the system. If starts are connected to these check them also.

Batteries can explode just ask Clifford.

I have 6Volt 232AH US Batteries and they work very well. I have 4 in series for my 24 volt magnum inverter. Soon I will put in a second back of 4 more being they are fairly new. Then there will be 8.

[Iceni John]

Gary, it sounds like you need a good battery SoC monitor.   There are several amp/hours-in vs. amp/hours-out monitors available, but they are all intrinsically inaccurate.   SmartGauge makes a SoC monitor that works well, and works well for a long time without its accuracy drifting off.   They are available in this country through Balmar  -  not cheap, but a lot less than a new set of batteries that have died a premature death:   http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/sgvahrs.html   SmartGauge's cogent explanation of their product says it all!   If it weren't for the fact that I have enough PV power to always keep my batteries fully charged, I would be buying two of these monitors for my house system.
 
John

[eagle19952]

yup. u really need to describe the rest of your system...inverters chargers controls.
AGM Batteries solve a lot of problems.

wet batteries need way more attention than you have given them.

DEKA sold me 8d AGM blems for way less than NAPA new lead acids.
the blems are cosmetic.
my current set was new in 2011.
xantrex Freedom with130 amp charger

[sledhead]

is that big black thing in the video  a kettle ? that looks like a battery . it should never look like steam is coming out of it

this is what I use to see how full the batteries are ( just like a fuel gauge )  has worked great for years

http://www.bogartengineering.com/products/trimetrics.html

dave

[bobofthenorth]

Dave has already posted a link to Bogart.  That's my favorite SOC monitor but it doesn't matter which one you use as long as you use one of them.  If you are replacing batteries every 2 years you need to spend some time understanding batteries and battery systems before you waste any money on new batteries.

Don't trust any "expert".  If you don't understand enough to argue with your "expert" you aren't ready to purchase anything.

[luvrbus]

Solar if you have it can present a problem too my solar charger went bad and with the solar and alternator going I looked and I was getting 16 volts on a 12 volt system so I pulled the fuse on the solar and it dropped back to 13v.
It may not be your inverter setting it could be a bad ground and the inverter is charging full blast they do if it doesn't sense the voltage  I had a Trace the grounding relay went bad and it cooked the batteries

[buswarrior]

Everything has a cost.

Time and money.

You can just throw another set of batteries in there every 2 years and carry on.
Many busnuts and boaters quietly/unknowingly/confidently operate this way...

Regular inspection/maintenance on a battery set has a cost/benefit that will greatly extend the battery dollars, but take time and effort to learn and the discipline to periodically do it.

Buying the expensive, (and in this case, band-aid solution) AGM... a quick check shows AGM cases costing double FLA. Will they last twice as long under the same conditions?

But without a list of the existing hardware and its settings, we're just blabbing...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Oonrahnjay]

...  this is what I use to see how full the batteries are ( just like a fuel gauge )  has worked great for years

http://www.bogartengineering.com/products/trimetrics.html

dave  

       My continuing inability to understand how them little electrictrons run around and hold hands means that I have no earthly idea what the following on the Bogart website means:

"Requires one of two shunts: 500A/50mV shunt allows amp measurements from 0.1-over 400 Amps. 100A/100mV shunt allows amp measurements from 0.01- over 70 Amps"

        Does Bogart supply a "shunt" with this meter?  If not, where is the best place to get one at a good price?   Is a "shunt" an electrical component or device?  How does it work?  Why can't you just connect this meter to the battery?

        The electrico-iddnurint thanks you!

UPDATE:  I did some digging around on them InnerWebs and found that a couple of different places specify or recommend "Deltec" shunts.  A press release says that Deltec has been bought by another company in December 2017 (Riedon Inc.).  Here is a website location for Riedon with a photo (I'm assuming that the photo is really of a "shunt" and not a photo of Lego parts that are meant to represent a shunt).  It says to order from a distributor, "Digikey" shows the RSB-500-50 for sale under part number 696-1597-ND, in stock, for about $25 each (no idea of price of shipping).  It would seem that there would be installation instructions available somewhere.  

Bogart says to order the meter from a distributor.  The closest one to me is in Florida.  The svHotWire website shows a price of $190, "including shunt" (does not specify whether 100 or 500 Amp capacity).