Today's dumb question

[RJ]

We just made a 250 mile run from San Jose, CA, to Bakersfield, CA, today as we're working our way south for the winter.

As we rolled down I-5, we passed 5-6 trucks pulled off along the side of the road, with either engine trouble or a tire issue. 

The thing I noticed was the EVERY SINGLE ONE of these disabled vehicles did NOT have their warning triangles placed correctly.

Do YOU know the proper placement when on a multi-lane roadway?

How about on a two-lane road (one lane in each direction?)

FWIW & HTH. . .

[richard5933]

Is this what you're looking for? It's for commercial vehicles, but I'd assume the principle applies to our coaches as well. Seems like something we should all be familiar with. Thanks for the reminder to review the info.

____________________________________
From 49 CFR Parts 392

Subpart C—Stopped Commercial Motor Vehicles

§392.22   Emergency signals; stopped commercial motor vehicles.

(a) Hazard warning signal flashers. Whenever a commercial motor vehicle is stopped upon the traveled portion of a highway or the shoulder of a highway for any cause other than necessary traffic stops, the driver of the stopped commercial motor vehicle shall immediately activate the vehicular hazard warning signal flashers and continue the flashing until the driver places the warning devices required by paragraph (b) of this section. The flashing signals shall be used during the time the warning devices are picked up for storage before movement of the commercial motor vehicle. The flashing lights may be used at other times while a commercial motor vehicle is stopped in addition to, but not in lieu of, the warning devices required by paragraph (b) of this section.

(b) Placement of warning devices—(1) General rule. Except as provided in paragraph (b)(2) of this section, whenever a commercial motor vehicle is stopped upon the traveled portion or the shoulder of a highway for any cause other than necessary traffic stops, the driver shall, as soon as possible, but in any event within 10 minutes, place the warning devices required by §393.95 of this subchapter, in the following manner:

(i) One on the traffic side of and 4 paces (approximately 3 meters or 10 feet) from the stopped commercial motor vehicle in the direction of approaching traffic;

(ii) One at 40 paces (approximately 30 meters or 100 feet) from the stopped commercial motor vehicle in the center of the traffic lane or shoulder occupied by the commercial motor vehicle and in the direction of approaching traffic; and

(iii) One at 40 paces (approximately 30 meters or 100 feet) from the stopped commercial motor vehicle in the center of the traffic lane or shoulder occupied by the commercial motor vehicle and in the direction away from approaching traffic.

(2) Special rules—(i) Fusees and liquid-burning flares. The driver of a commercial motor vehicle equipped with only fusees or liquid-burning flares shall place a lighted fusee or liquid-burning flare at each of the locations specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section. There shall be at least one lighted fusee or liquid-burning flare at each of the prescribed locations, as long as the commercial motor vehicle is stopped. Before the stopped commercial motor vehicle is moved, the driver shall extinguish and remove each fusee or liquid-burning flare.

(ii) Daylight hours. Except as provided in paragraph (b)(2)(iii) of this section, during the period lighted lamps are not required, three bidirectional reflective triangles, or three lighted fusees or liquid-burning flares shall be placed as specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section within a time of 10 minutes. In the event the driver elects to use only fusees or liquid-burning flares in lieu of bidirectional reflective triangles or red flags, the driver must ensure that at least one fusee or liquid-burning flare remains lighted at each of the prescribed locations as long as the commercial motor vehicle is stopped or parked.

(iii) Business or residential districts. The placement of warning devices is not required within the business or residential district of a municipality, except during the time lighted lamps are required and when street or highway lighting is insufficient to make a commercial motor vehicle clearly discernable at a distance of 500 feet to persons on the highway.

(iv) Hills, curves, and obstructions. If a commercial motor vehicle is stopped within 500 feet of a curve, crest of a hill, or other obstruction to view, the driver shall place the warning signal required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section in the direction of the obstruction to view a distance of 100 feet to 500 feet from the stopped commercial motor vehicle so as to afford ample warning to other users of the highway.

(v) Divided or one-way roads. If a commercial motor vehicle is stopped upon the traveled portion or the shoulder of a divided or one-way highway, the driver shall place the warning devices required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section, one warning device at a distance of 200 feet and one warning device at a distance of 100 feet in a direction toward approaching traffic in the center of the lane or shoulder occupied by the commercial motor vehicle. He/she shall place one warning device at the traffic side of the commercial motor vehicle within 10 feet of the rear of the commercial motor vehicle.

[Geoff]

I think I might have seen a few triangles that we're put up "correctly", but the ones that weren't still put out the message. 

[luvrbus]

I think I might have seen a few triangles that we're put up "correctly", but the ones that weren't still put out the message. 

The dot doesn't really care about the spacing as long as there are out 

[Jim Eh.]

Item B(ii) and B(iii) both list placement at 100 feet and both in the center of the lane? I have always seen the middle flare positioned @ 60' positioned in the center of the lane then the first flare @ 100' - nearest to the curb side of the lane. I guess what I have seen (and what makes sense to me) has been wrong all this time.

[richard5933]

That is strange - both in the same location with one forward facing and one rear facing. Not something I've seen ever done either.

[PP]

That is strange - both in the same location with one forward facing and one rear facing. Not something I've seen ever done either.

That's not what I got out of it. 100 feet in front of the rig and 100 feet behind the rig and 4 feet from the rear corner of the rig. My interpretation. 
Will

[Oonrahnjay]

That's not what I got out of it. 100 feet in front of the rig and 100 feet behind the rig and 4 feet from the rear corner of the rig. My interpretation. 
Will

     Yeah, with the 4 foot one being at the edge of the road (if the vehicle is off road) with the 100 foot ones being at the "center of the shoulder"?  Is that right?

[Scott & Heather]

I have a pack of road flares. Forget the triangles, set those babies out and trust me, you'll get noticed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[RJ]

Here's a good article that includes some visuals regarding proper triangle placement:

https://cdllife.com/2017/placing-warning-triangles-properly/

(For better understanding of the following comments, please read the article first.)

As a side note, when I got my CDL 50 years ago, and also when I went thru the CA School Bus Driver Instructor's Program 10 years later, we were taught the same spacing, but slightly different placement for the triangles when on a multi-lane roadway:

We were taught that the first triangle 10 feet back was to be placed in line with the LH edge of the bus.

The second triangle at 100 feet back was to be placed matching the center line of the bus.

The third and final triangle, at 200 feet back, was to be placed matching the RH edge of the bus.

The combination then gave a pattern directing traffic around the disabled vehicle.

I don't know if this is still being taught or not, but it sure makes sense to me.

Do it your way - per DOT guidelines, of course.

FWIW & HTH. . .

[HB of CJ]

Respectfully: ...

Maybe setting out lit red road flares during one of the worst windy fire seasons in Californian MAY get you some unwanted attention from all sorts of non friendly folks?

Just saying.

The problem is that most of Eye Five North and South between "Do You Know The Way To San Jose" and Bako, (Bakersfield)  (known as the Shieety City) has soft shoulders.

If you pull off the highway trying to safely spot, one runs the distinct possibility of getting very stuck.  Staying on the road surface does not let one park enough to the right.

No dog.  Respectfully.

[Jim Eh.]

LOL, the confusion starts at fuses and flares. "Fusees" are the big fire cracker type that you pull off the cap and strike the end to ignite, flares are the plastic triangle reflectors and now ... "liquid-filled fares" are similar to "fusees" ?

[Jim Eh.]

That's not what I got out of it. 100 feet in front of the rig and 100 feet behind the rig and 4 feet from the rear corner of the rig. My interpretation. 
Will

Re-reading the "act",  I would tend to agree with this ^.
My question, if there is no marker place in front of your vehicle and someone hits the front of your vehicle WHAT WAS THAT PERSON DOING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY?

[B_K]

RJ no disrespect meant to you. But CDL's only came out in the early 90's before that each state had their own version of "chauffeurs" or for hire license but the federal government came up w/CDL's in the late 80's and made them mandatory sometime in '91 or '92.
I remember well because I had my CDL almost 2 yrs before the mandate was official. The day it became official ALL states surrounding KY pulled over any KY drivers they could and wrote us all tickets saying our licenses were no good because KY had left of the "D" on the endorsements which meant we were not eligible to drive a private car let alone any other vehicle.
(KY law enforcement used to be super hard on out of state drivers in the past, so the other states were getting even for their drivers by taking it out on KY's CDL holders!)
SO the next day I went to the KY DMV office and the lady asked may I help you? I pulled out my CDL and before I could say a word, she held up a shoe box and said toss it in here and step to the line for a new picture! She had me fill out the address and other info and sign it, then took my picture in a couple mins. I had a valid license and the state of KY sent a copy of it to the city of Blytheville, AR where I'd gotten ticketed by the scale house there. A couple days later I got a letter of confirmation from the state of AR saying that the citation had been satisfied and I was good to go.
  BK 

[RJ]

RJ no disrespect meant to you. But CDL's only came out in the early 90's before that each state had their own version of "chauffeurs" or for hire license but the federal government came up w/CDL's in the late 80's and made them mandatory sometime in '91 or '92.

Bryce -

No problem, brother!  I was using the "KISS" principle to describe my original training, and yes, it was a "chauffeurs" license back then, plus the school bus endorsement.  I was also involved in the transition to CDLs during the early '90s - what a zoo that was getting all 150+ drivers at our transit agency updated.  Not only did they have to update to a CDL, but 1990 was also the beginning of the VTT (Verification of Transit Training) requirement for CA transit bus operators.  Double the workload!  (I miss the work, but I don't miss the politics of working for a government agency!)

Thanks for helping to enlighten the newbies. . .

RJ