100% electric buses

HB of CJ · December 20, 2017, 05:14:53 PM

I am having a hard time doing the math. Seems to me a transit coach in stop and go urban service in the hard wintertime ... or the hot muggy summertime might consume more energy heating, defrosting and cooling than the actual road route.

Are the new batteries that good? What is the weight per KWH for current storage batteries used in 100% electric bus service? I used to drive blue sled GMC urban transit buses years ago. Extremely difficult and hard service. Stop and go.

Do the new 100% electric buses have regenerative braking as well as conventional brakes? We had to run 100% throttle accelerating and 100% braking to maintain the route schedule. Extremely hard on the equipment and not safe. Years ago.

Jeremy · December 20, 2017, 05:33:01 PM

Quote from: Iceni John on December 20, 2017, 05:13:35 PM
Tesla (and Thor), be warned! https://uk.news.yahoo.com/germany-started-building-first-motorway-electric-lorries-154736773.html So, logically, why couldn't one have fleets of long-distance electric buses pulling power from overhead wires for the long-haul, and then using smaller on-board batteries for around-town local driving?

John

Well of course trolleybuses (conventional buses with rubber tyres but with pantographs) have been around as long as trams, and have also seen a recent resurgence - but running them long-distance down motorways fitted with overhead cables, yes that would be a logical step. But as always it's paying for the infrastructure that always holds back new vehicle technologies and even in this day-and-age many countries still haven't fully electrified their railway networks yet, never mind starting on the roads too. But it's a good ambition

Jeremy

Geoff · December 20, 2017, 07:01:00 PM

I foresee electric buses towing 250kW diesel generators for power. No road tax on fuel.

oltrunt · December 20, 2017, 08:55:17 PM

Why here in Ca. they wouldn't cost anything to buy, build or fuel. What could be better than free? That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Jack

CrabbyMilton · December 21, 2017, 03:57:07 AM

Hybrids seem to be the best option for any sort of electric bus now. That way there is little worry about running out of juice.
John, I really hope you were joking or else had a bad cold and that was a result of a weird dream when you said that about over head wires on freeways.

The cost would be insane. Some rail buffs think that should be the norm for locomotives but the cost would prohibit that.

Jeremy · December 21, 2017, 05:12:25 AM

Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 21, 2017, 03:57:07 AM
Hybrids seem to be the best option for any sort of electric bus now. That way there is little worry about running out of juice.
John, I really hope you were joking or else had a bad cold and that was a result of a weird dream when you said that about over head wires on freeways. The cost would be insane. Some rail buffs think that should be the norm for locomotives but the cost would prohibit that.

Not a weird dream, it's happening - click the link that John gave.

And electrified railway systems ARE the norm in most developed countries.

Quote from: Geoff on December 20, 2017, 07:01:00 PM
I foresee electric buses towing 250kW diesel generators for power. No road tax on fuel.

You're supposed to pay duty on any fuel used for road use - it's never occurred to me to wonder how that works with electricity, but certainly for veg oil and propane etc you're theoretically supposed to record your usage and post a cheque to the taxman.

Jeremy

CrabbyMilton · December 21, 2017, 05:30:06 AM

True but just because it works over in Europe doesn't mean it will work here.
Most of those countries are socialist to the point that makes Bernie Sanders look like a conservative in that there is little to no private sector capitalism. Railroads are not going to spend tons of money just to please the electric crowd over here. Guess who would have to pay for that if they ever did that? You got it. What happens if one of those trucks has to get around an accident? They would have to be towed back to the line and with that, delays, extra costs, and PO's customers.
Besides, a diesel locomotive has such a nice sound that can't be matched with an electric version.

eagle19952 · December 21, 2017, 08:41:37 AM

Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 21, 2017, 05:30:06 AM
True but just because it works over in Europe doesn't mean it will work here.
Most of those countries are socialist to the point that makes Bernie Sanders look like a conservative in that there is little to no private sector capitalism. Railroads are not going to spend tons of money just to please the electric crowd over here. Guess who would have to pay for that if they ever did that? You got it. What happens if one of those trucks has to get around an accident? They would have to be towed back to the line and with that, delays, extra costs, and PO's customers.
Besides, a diesel locomotive has such a nice sound that can't be matched with an electric version.

How can you call utilization of tax revenue in a manner that the people approve socialism ?

Jeremy · December 21, 2017, 08:43:18 AM

Quote from: CrabbyMilton on December 21, 2017, 05:30:06 AM
Most of those countries are socialist..

Wow, who knew?

And for the record, I did deliberately say 'most developed countries' and not 'Europe'. Think of Japan, Taiwan, South Korean and all those hugely productive and rampantly capitalist tiger economies in the Far East - do they have such highly developed railway systems because they're all socialist too? And if so, perhaps socialism isn't actually what you think it is? Or perhaps it just works much better than you think it does?

For the record (and leaving aside physical issues such as the distances to be traveled), having an electrified railway system has absolutely nothing to do with whether your government happens to be left-wing or right-wing and everything to do with whether the country's railway system is regarded as being an important national asset (such as the road network), or something from the past which can be allowed to decline and die (such as the canal networks in some countries). Using the 'socialist' argument you might equally well say that national governments shouldn't be paying for tarmac and concrete to modernise the road network.

Again for the record, the UK (for example) has a right-wing capitalist government, and all railway freight and passenger services are run by profit-making private companies. But the railway network, just like the road network that's also used by private freight and passenger services, is paid-for nationally. Seems logical to me.

Jeremy

CrabbyMilton · December 21, 2017, 09:24:30 AM

Because the govt. owns a large part of many European companies. Competition is a bad thing over there.
If that's not socialism I don't know what is.
Americans love freedom. Freedom to drive our cars, buses and trucks directly to our destination.
I have nothing against rail and air but it must not be owned by the govt.
Let the market decide if passenger rail is to survive.

CrabbyMilton · December 21, 2017, 09:56:49 AM

Let me be clear here. People often get after me thinking that I have been bus nut all of my life, I must love mass transit which would include rail. I get annoyed at that and tell them that I love the buses themselves not the operators since the local transit operators are part of local govt. They tell us what time we should go and come back.
I drive my car to work. I'm not going to stand outside and wait for a bus and transfer several times, and have it take twice as long and that's when the weather is good. If my car breaks down, I'll call a cab.

chessie4905 · December 21, 2017, 09:56:54 AM

Time to move this discussion.

ol713 · December 21, 2017, 04:20:45 PM

Hi all;
The company BYD is located locally in Lancaster, Ca. Currently, they are in the
test and evaluation stage. I have even seen an articulated bus cruising the
streets.
Guess they have big plans. Within the last year they have expanded their
manufacturing facility and are hiring people like crazy.
Merle.

Oonrahnjay · December 21, 2017, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: ol713 on December 21, 2017, 04:20:45 PM
Hi all;
The company BYD is located locally in Lancaster, Ca. Currently, they are in the
test and evaluation stage. I have even seen an articulated bus cruising the
streets.
Guess they have big plans. Within the last year they have expanded their
manufacturing facility and are hiring people like crazy.
Merle.

Their website shows an artic. They quote it as being made for 60 people. BYD is headquartered in and has most of its manufacturing in China.

TomC · December 21, 2017, 11:45:08 PM

I could see in a few years having a "kit" where a Diesel engine/transmission would be swapped with an electric motor and battery. Think about it-how many times do you go more than 250 miles in a day of driving your bus? We could continue to have an on board generator to supplement the range on those days we needed to go further than 250 miles. I personally would go for an electric bus conversion. Good Luck, TomC