Ash Content - Traveller Oil

[LegalEagle82]

This is simply a FYI post on 40 Weight Oil for those using othe older 2 strokes.

While shopping at a local "Tractor Supply" store here in Nashville, 
I noticed they carry a straight 40 weight Oil, under the trade name "Traveller"

Upon inspection there was no specs on the bottle.  Just plain jane, black 2 gallon jug.  $17.00

I emailed the service desk and got this response:

"We  package two 40wt. oils for you...one is HD 40 (0802347 is 5 gallon and 0802240 in 2 gallon) and the other is Non-Detergent 40 (0801244 in 2 gallon)."    The  ...  HD 40 ... ash content is .83 mass percent.  To meet the specification the product should be under 1% max. ash content."

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I just wanted to share the info and put it in line with the information from tejascoach. 

Chevron Delo 100           40 WT              = 0.76    (24% BELOW benchmark)

Exxon XD-3                     40 WT              = 0.80

Traveller (Tractor Supply)   40 wt              =0.83

Citgo Mystik Premium
Fleet Engine Oil              40 WT              = 0.90

Shell Rotella 40T            40 WT              = 1.00    (Shell Rotella 40T is borderline)

Delo 400                          40 WT              = 1.35    (35% OUT of TOLERANCE)

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I thought this would be another good option for some, as its sitting on the self and no need to special order.
If I locate the supplier, I post the other name brands of the same product. As its been claimed that there is a Scarcity of Availability of Straight 40 WT. Oils

Evan  - LegalEagle82

[Dallas]

As far as I can tell,
The Traveller brand does Not meet the cf-2 spec with the API institute.

here is a link to Tractor Supply Licence information with API:

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0640

[LegalEagle82]

Dallas,

Thanks for the link and information.   Can someone give me a little more detail on ther certifications, and what exactly they represent. 

  It looks like the 40 weight HD has a listing of "SL" as compared to "CF-2" that Dallas mentioned.  Which I suppose what is called for on these engines? 

Let me know, and I'll email back to Tractor Supply.

I was hoping this oil would be good enough for me to use, especially for topping off when needed.

Evan

[Busted Knuckle]

I see the Exxon XD-3 I had to buy on the road over in "Danny's" area in Cookeville, TN for Carter & Carter is right up there near the top in low ash content! The dealer told me it was the best I'd find for an old Detroit! I guess he was right! I just knew I had a small leak develope on the trip and needed more oil cuase we'd run out in the shop. So I picked up 2 cases at 34.60 a case or $8.35/gal !  I was just glad to locate it!  Dad say's when he started the bus Wed. morning for me he'd heard a pop, pop, pop sound coming from the left front side of the engine compartment until it warmed up. While I was traveling I looked under the bus while parked and saw my leak was coming from the filter. Has anyone else ever experienced "blowing a filter gasket" in cold weather before?
BK 

[Dallas]

Evan,

Here is the official word from Detroit Diesel on Lubricants, fuels and coolants.

The one you want is 7SE270, "Lubricating Oil, Fuel and Filters"

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/support/on-highway/manuals/Lubricants_Fuels_Coolants/index.asp

Read it thoroughly a couple of times and you'll come to understand why Detroit specs this type of oil.

Next:

API engine oil classifications for Viscosity, (asof 2002)

http://www.infineum.com/information/viscosity.html

Next:

API Brand Search. (This is an old list so click on the brand name at the left to take you to the page for that brands licences).

http://eolcs.api.org/FindBrandByServiceCategory.asp?ServiceCategory=CF-2

API's Home page, lots of good information:

http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/index.cfm

I hope that helps.

It seems to me that if a corporation were recommending an incorrect oil for a given application, the corporation would have some liability if the engine were damaged.
I know this was mentioned on another thread about ABC Bus Sales, but the more I think about it, the more I think the above is true.

There is no excuse for recommending an incorrect oil for an engine other than greed and laziness. The greed from wanting to sell another customer a gallon of oil, no matter what, and the laziness from being too unconcerned or stupid to find out what is actually required.

OK, I'm off my soap box, Back to buses!

[Dallas]

I see the Exxon XD-3 I had to buy on the road over in "Danny's" area in Cookeville, TN for Carter & Carter is right up there near the top in low ash content! The dealer told me it was the best I'd find for an old Detroit! I guess he was right! I just knew I had a small leak develope on the trip and needed more oil cuase we'd run out in the shop. So I picked up 2 cases at 34.60 a case or $8.35/gal !  I was just glad to locate it!  Dad say's when he started the bus Wed. morning for me he'd heard a pop, pop, pop sound coming from the left front side of the engine compartment until it warmed up. While I was traveling I looked under the bus while parked and saw my leak was coming from the filter. Has anyone else ever experienced "blowing a filter gasket" in cold weather before?
BK 

Bryce,
I had a filter gasket come loose from the filter itself once on a Cummins, I think it was caused by the service tech cinching it down too tight and then backing it off again. It didn't show up until the engine was thoroughly warmed up and a hundred miles from nowhere. Needless to say I drove as far as I could and hitch hiked another 30 miles to get a filter and 2 cases of oil. Ahhhh, those were the days! 

[Len Silva]

Dallas,

Thanks for the link and information.   Can someone give me a little more detail on ther certifications, and what exactly they represent. 

  It looks like the 40 weight HD has a listing of "SL" as compared to "CF-2" that Dallas mentioned.  Which I suppose what is called for on these engines? 

Let me know, and I'll email back to Tractor Supply.

I was hoping this oil would be good enough for me to use, especially for topping off when needed.

Evan

Any of the SX classifications are spark ignition (Gas engines), the CX is compression ignition.

Len

[NJT 5573]

I get more miles out of a gallon of white jug than I can the blue jug. Whats up with that?

[LegalEagle82]

This was the final response I got back on behalf of the oil from Tractor Supply, when I told them it was for a 2 stroke diesel.


The Traveller Heavy Duty SAE 40 is SL rated and not recommended for diesel.  The Traveller Fleet engine oils carry the required performance you need.  As you see from the API ratings they carry the SAE 15W-40 and straight grade SAE 30 and not the straight grade 40 you are seeking.  So, if you demand a straight grade SAE 40, TSC does not have it. 
Today, the SAE 15W-40 is recommended by the engine manufacturer and with good reason.

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And relating back to the my first post on this issue, 

I inserted the Tractor Supply oil into tejascoach list to show the ash content.  But for all who don't know better,  just ignore my listing.   

At least I've learned not to buy something just because it says 40 weight.   But the Exxon does seem like a fair price and product if its easily found at the stores.

Thanks again, as I learn my lessons online here.

Evan

[Dallas]

Evan,

I wouldn't worry about using a little of the oil at times. I've been known to drop a gallon or so of 40Wt Non detergent into my crankcase just to get me to a place where I could purchase the good stuff.

It's true, I haven't moved our coach in a long while, but I know that If I start her up now and head out on the road, she isn't gonna get the "Anti Rust Application" on the back end.

I've seen buses and trucks go from using a gallon every 500 - 800 miles to using a gallon every 2000 miles just by switching to the CF-2 rated oil.

Good luck with your search for CF-2  and let us know if you find more.

Dallas

[HighTechRedneck]

This was the final response I got back on behalf of the oil from Tractor Supply, when I told them it was for a 2 stroke diesel.


The Traveller Heavy Duty SAE 40 is SL rated and not recommended for diesel.  The Traveller Fleet engine oils carry the required performance you need.  As you see from the API ratings they carry the SAE 15W-40 and straight grade SAE 30 and not the straight grade 40 you are seeking.  So, if you demand a straight grade SAE 40, TSC does not have it. 
Today, the SAE 15W-40 is recommended by the engine manufacturer and with good reason.

-----------------------

That last line kind of fits in the category that Dallas stated:

There is no excuse for recommending an incorrect oil for an engine other than greed and laziness. The greed from wanting to sell another customer a gallon of oil, no matter what, and the laziness from being too unconcerned or stupid to find out what is actually required.

Here is what Detroit Diesel has to say:

________________________________________________
Engine Series                           Recommended Oil Type
                                               Primary        Secondary
53, 71, 92 All Applications               1             2, 3 or 4
________________________________________________


___________________________________________________________________
Oil Type                                 1                 2                   3                    4
API Classification                    CF-2          CF-2             CF-2        CF-2 or LMOA2
Viscosity Grade                       40              40                  50                   50
Sulfated Ash (ASTM D 874) 1.0%Max.    0.85 Max.    0.8% Max.     Not Specified
___________________________________________________________________

[Dallas]

This was the final response I got back on behalf of the oil from Tractor Supply, when I told them it was for a 2 stroke diesel.


The Traveller Heavy Duty SAE 40 is SL rated and not recommended for diesel.  The Traveller Fleet engine oils carry the required performance you need.  As you see from the API ratings they carry the SAE 15W-40 and straight grade SAE 30 and not the straight grade 40 you are seeking.  So, if you demand a straight grade SAE 40, TSC does not have it. 
Today, the SAE 15W-40 is recommended by the engine manufacturer and with good reason.

-----------------------
And relating back to the my first post on this issue, 

I inserted the Tractor Supply oil into tejascoach list to show the ash content.  But for all who don't know better,  just ignore my listing.   

At least I've learned not to buy something just because it says 40 weight.   But the Exxon does seem like a fair price and product if its easily found at the stores.

Thanks again, as I learn my lessons online here.

Evan

I'd like to see where they get their information from. It is obviously not from the manufacturer.
The update of the .PDF file is 03/08/06. I kinda figure if Detroit had changed it's recommendations, they would have updated Bulletin 7SE270 as they do usually once or twice a year.

You may want to copy the relevant parts of the bulletin and send it to them. Also, you may want to ask them to show you Where the manufacturer recommends 15W40 in their 2 cycle engines

[lostagain]

Petro-Canada makes an engine oil specifically for 2 stroke Detroits in 40w or 30w. It is called Diesel Tonic and it is very good. Ask your local bulk plant.

[HighTechRedneck]

Petro-Canada makes an engine oil specifically for 2 stroke Detroits in 40w or 30w. It is called Diesel Tonic and it is very good. Ask your local bulk plant.

I didn't find it by that product name on a quick Google search but I did find this data sheet for single weight heavy duty engine oils from Petro-Canada on their website.  The 40 is rated CF-2 and a 1.0% Sulphated Ash content which perfectly matches DD's primary recommendation.

[Dallas]

Here's an interesting piece on engine oil put out by the University of Maryland.

http://www.agnr.umd.edu/users/Bioreng/fact181b.htm