Trip ends in tragedy

[Zephod]

. Do you automatically begin evasive action every time some nitwit encroaches on the center line when meeting? I don't because I have some trust in fellow drivers and past experiences have shown that they are generally going to correct and get over, or at the least just run a tire down the line which I can still avoid with minimal action.

3 seconds! I don't think he did anything wrong.

He did something. He reacted to the danger.

I don't take evasive action though I do brake if somebody comes over the center line. Driving 100+ miles daily in a schoolbus tends to hone your skills.


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[MrCrowley]

We're both fine physically. My heart is broken.

1964 PD4106-2412

Tragady wether your fault or not take a toll remind yourself and husband you did not have control sadness I understand but do not feel guilt . Sending prayers your way .


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[gumpy]

Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel.

Again, you're making unsupported assumptions and wild accusations here which are not based on the information provided.

Go back and read the thread. The loss of control was caused by the steering being ripped from the underside of the bus upon impact. It had absolutely nothing to do with him using the horn. You have no idea if he had both hands on the wheel or not and speculation on your part as if it were fact is asinine. Many buses have horn buttons on the side of the wheel. The horn was not sounding at the time of impact. You have no clue where his hands were.

[Oonrahnjay]

Tragady wether your fault or not take a toll remind yourself and husband you did not have control sadness I understand but do not feel guilt . Sending prayers your way .

    These are similar to my feelings.  This event was visited upon you through no fault of your own, but it will still have an impact on you.  Take good care of yourself and do the simple things; get rest, eat smart, get out and exercise and get in some relaxing entertainment.  You'll have to do some work to get your mind right again but if your body is as healthy as it can be, it will be a benefit to you.
    I have continuously thought through all this how much sympathy and empathy that I have for you and your family.  It's a terrible thing but you did all that's humanly possible.  It's not your fault - it happened to by external factors, not your actions or failings.

[Brent Lance]

Man..seems there is some unneeded back and forth on this topic.. sad deal it seems. A young life was lost. I didnt get too see the video. But sounds like he did what he thought was right inannsplit second decision to keep himself and wife safe.something he only had a fraction of control over. Was lucky.they walked away.. im sure they will struggle with and question the what if's.. what if he had reacted different. Would they have walked away then? We can all ssay or guess what wed have done. But till ur there..in that moment. You and your wife were in the right rig..made the right split second decision. Walked away. U could have made a hundred diff split second decisions different ..with the same results. It wasnt your fault and only had control over a fraction of the whole ordeal.

Glad you and your wife are ok. Physically.. hope with some time you will find comfort with emotional side of it..  interested to see pics of how the bus did and didnt fair in whole ordeal..

[B_K]

Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel. Having said that, it's debatable as to whether both hands firmly grasping the wheel and hard braking would have affected the outcome greatly.

The important thing is he did something. He sounded the horn. While my reaction is always to brake and lock the wheel rather than to sound the horn, it really depends on your training. I'm not a fan of the horn button being in the center of the steering wheel. I prefer the European idea of having it on the end of a control stem.

Zephod you really do need to attend a bus rally sometime and take some tours of other COACHES!
MOST of the buses people on this board have are over the road or transist coaches, not skoolies. They are an entirely different animal!

Don't get me wrong I have nothing wrong with skoolies or your choice to build one, and I certainly applaud you for your creativity and out of the box thinking on things that you have done on yours.

But the point is the horn you hear honking in that video is the air horn and 99% of those on coaches are operated by a foot button, not by hand.



Side note to all;
Having driven (many times up to 650 miles a day) for a living for over 35 yrs  from tow trucks, dump trucks, equipment haulers, OTR tractor trailers, and charter buses I have seen many many bad wrecks, some caused by stupid actions of someone (either involved in the accident, or not), and some that just happened due to mechanical failures, weather, who knows or what ever.

The fact remains the same trying to avoid a collision at highway speeds in ANY vehicle, but especially a large tall and heavy vehicle such a bus or truck is recipe for disaster!

Tall heavy vehicles tend to "fall" over when you attempt to change direction suddenly at high speed. Best to stay straight ahead and aviod rolling the truck or bus!

A good friend and former employee of mine had a tragic accident back in 2016 when he was hit almost exactly like the accident in the video he tried to move to the right "as much as he safely could on a 2 lane hwy w/o a shoulder and still got clipped same as Richard did. But Nathan made the mistake of trying to give a couple extra feet to the Ford Explorer that was coming at him, and ended up dropping the right side steer tire of the edge of the road which ended up causing the bus to flip on it's side after the impact, and nearly totaling a 2016 Prevost coach with less than 20,000 miles on it!
The repairs were over $300,000 and LANCER Insurance would NOT TOTAL it, and replace it for the owner! Had it been me we (Lancer & I) would have had a major fight over that one! It took close to a year of the bus in 3 different shops to get it back on the road and the whole time the owner had to keep making payments!
The young lady that hit Nathan was a single mother of 3 in her 20's going to college to become a nurse to make a better life for her and her children, had no insurance and the vehicle was not properly registered and was actually not a valid VIN in any data base meaning the vehicle had been sold to a recycling facility and should have been crushed or dismantled for parts as the title was turned in to the state and voided.
How the car got back on the road and who was responsible is still a mystery to us, as we were never told any more about if the authorities had found out any of that.

Point is the man that owned the bus had to "take what Lancer told him, about repairing the bus because to repairs did not exceed the value of a brand new bus, and there was nothing in his policy that said he could refuse to let them repair the coach rather than total and replace it!"
He and I talked about it at length and he even took what came from our discussions to his lawyer who checked and rechecked everything we discussed,but found no grounds to stand on against the insurance company!
The only blessing the owner got out of it was that Prevost was gracious enough to give him a loaner/demo unit to use for the time the bus was out of service, while he was making payments on it.
But Prevost didn't have to do that,they just did as the guy was between a rock and a hard place because his insurance policy had nothing in it about a replacement vehicle for loss of revenue in it. And since the young lady that hit it had no insurance and no assets he was basically screwed even though he nor his driver had done anything wrong!
B_K

[eagle19952]

Yes. The loss of control though was due to his hand being on the horn rather than both hands on the wheel. Having said that, it's debatable as to whether both hands firmly grasping the wheel and hard braking would have affected the outcome greatly.

The important thing is he did something. He sounded the horn. While my reaction is always to brake and lock the wheel rather than to sound the horn, it really depends on your training. I'm not a fan of the horn button being in the center of the steering wheel. I prefer the European idea of having it on the end of a control stem.


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go back and read the post.
he lost control because the front end was damaged,
get a clue.

[Jon]

What I think is sad is Richard has now been criticized for EVERYTHING he did. His posting of the video was severely criticized yet it was incredibly instructional. His actions or lack of actions relative to possible prevention of the crash have been criticized.

Not a soul criticizing him or his actions was there. Not a soul criticizing him has a clue how they would have responded or what they would do after the fact because until they have been in the situation they are just blowing off steam.

He is blameless, he feels bad, and he did everything he thought was right, before during and after the accident and then folks on this forum jump on a guy who already feels bad. Nothing quite like kicking a guy while he is down.

[eagle19952]

What I think is sad is Richard has now been criticized for EVERYTHING he did. His posting of the video was severely criticized yet it was incredibly instructional. His actions or lack of actions relative to possible prevention of the crash have been criticized.

Not a soul criticizing him or his actions was there. Not a soul criticizing him has a clue how they would have responded or what they would do after the fact because until they have been in the situation they are just blowing off steam.

He is blameless, he feels bad, and he did everything he thought was right, before during and after the accident and then folks on this forum jump on a guy who already feels bad. Nothing quite like kicking a guy while he is down.

You're painting with a very wide brush there.

[Zephod]

What I think is sad is Richard has now been criticized for EVERYTHING he did. His posting of the video was severely criticized yet it was incredibly instructional. His actions or lack of actions relative to possible prevention of the crash have been criticized.

Not a soul criticizing him or his actions was there. Not a soul criticizing him has a clue how they would have responded or what they would do after the fact because until they have been in the situation they are just blowing off steam.

He is blameless, he feels bad, and he did everything he thought was right, before during and after the accident and then folks on this forum jump on a guy who already feels bad. Nothing quite like kicking a guy while he is down.

Agreed. That video was instructional. As I've said... he did do [italic]something[/italic]even though sounding the horn probably took his hand off the wheel at an inopportune moment. He did not sit like a lemon and watch the disaster happening. But it's ok if he was frozen by horror and did just that - it's a very human reaction. In war soldiers sometimes drop flat and freeze instead of attacking or retreating or whatever. It's the way we work.

I tend to hang onto the wheel and brake but that's my method.

I've noticed on many forums the nitpickers that pick everything to bits. Just the same happens to many of my threads which is why I don't take anything said or advice given on the forum particularly seriously. That daft thread on airing up a bus quickly is a prime example. I aired my work bus quickly today. It took two minutes and I centered the rev counter needle. Having said that, it wasn't from cold - I'd been parked at a Starbucks for 45 minutes having coffee while waiting to start the highschool late start run.

What is missing though is sympathy for Richard and the misplaced guilt that his mind is probably tormenting him with - stupid things like "if I had not been on that road" or "if I'd taken up flower arranging" etc. he's probably at the stage where he's clutching at straws and trying to blame himself for everything. Last I knew - the car driver was at fault.


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[Jon]

Donald, I did not say everyone that posted was critical of Richard's actions. But my heart goes out to the guy who did not cause the accident, felt terrible because of it and then the pundits started in on being critical at a time when he just did not need to be jumped on.

Or do you seriously believe the criticisms weren't adding to his pain.

[luvrbus]

That is not a soul on this board that their hearts are not breaking and have great sympathy for Richard and his wife where do come up with this sh** Zephod .Lol Jon calling a few of us arm chair lawyers on his site doesn't bother me as much as your BS does. .
I don't why Jon choose this forum to make his comments the reactions were about the same on his Prevost board and he said nothing it is ok I still love Jon.  
We need to leave this alone and let Richard and wife have time to relax ,clear their heads and get their business settled and go on with their lives these comments are not helping and you know Richard is reading all this crap  

[kyle4501]

I think Richard is an amazing bus nut! He cares enough about us to share his experience so we can benefit.

A kind heart, a class act, and a fine example to follow.

[gumpy]

What is missing though is sympathy for Richard and the misplaced guilt that his mind is probably tormenting him with - stupid things like "if I had not been on that road" or "if I'd taken up flower arranging" etc. he's probably at the stage where he's clutching at straws and trying to blame himself for everything. Last I knew - the car driver was at fault.

You really don't know when to shut the hell up, do you??

[Zephod]

You really don't know when to shut the hell up, do you??

Why are you so nasty to me?


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