For people buying busses

[CrabbyMilton]

My Eagle is non DDEC. I wish it had that.

When you are dealing with a 6.5mpg engine versus 9mpg (or better) it's like spending money for rear end changes, probably not worth it for the miles most put on their conversions. If you have a fleet of commercial vehicles a .5mpg improvement in fuel costs adds up pretty nicely at the end of the year.

Mechanics with much knowledge of DD two strokes is like finding repairmen for intergalactic vehicles, there aren't many of them. There are a lot of whiz kids that can plug in a cord and quickly pinpoint a problem.

I too never bought new vehicles. The last new pickup I bought was a 05 extended cab Silverado 4x4, best fuel mileage at 65mph was 17.5mpg. I bought a lightly used demonstrator 14 High Country crew cab 4x4. Best fuel mileage was about 20mpg. This year I bought a new 17 High Country Crew cab 4x4 that gets 24.5 routinely at 80mph, (The new speed limit in South Dakota) The best ever on a fuel tank load was 31.5!

All of these were 1500s. The 05 had the 4.8 liter v8. The two Hi Countrys have 5.3 liters.

Electronics enable my new truck to operate as a v4 when v8 is not needed. The only indication of whether it is operating as v4 or v8 is the little indicator in the dash panel changes. There is no sound, power or other indication either direction.

Electronics! Any questions?

I liked your comment about the cylinder deactivation. I never drove one but I rode in a RAM 1500 that had it. If you listen carefully, you can hear it change from a V8 to a V4.
Still smooth though.

[akroyaleagle]

If you listen carefully, you can hear it change from a V8 to a V4.

Must have spent too much time around DDs, flying helicopters, or in the Airborne Infantry. I don't hear anything.

[kyle4501]

For the miles I am able to put on mine for the next 10 years, If my mileage went from 6 to 12 mpg, it wouldn't make any difference much. . . . Not enough time off from work to get to use it more. 


10,000 miles at 6mpg = 1,667 gallons -- at 12mpg = 833 gallons.

At $2.5/gal, that is $2083. 

If that made a big difference in my budget, I wouldn't be able to properly maintain the coach . . . . .

Paying cash for an older, high end coach has allowed more $$ in my pocket to pay for maintenance & fuel as it is needed.
I wouldn't be able to that if I had a monthly loan payment. . . .

[Scott & Heather]

I had an ignition relay strand me in the New Mexican desert for 4 days last year...a simple relay, something every single car built in my lifetime has in it. So I guess you win some and you lose some.


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[belfert]

My bus has a Series 60 with DDEC III in it.  I have never had a problem with the electronics on the engine.  Remember, there are probably hundreds of thousands of Series 60 on the road with few electronics issues.  Every semi tractor on the road has had an electronic engine for about the last 20 years.

[oltrunt]

I love the computerized stuff.  Cool how it all works. I'm even getting familiar with the multiplex wiring thanks to my bus and my 03 retrobird.  All that said, I did spring for a dealer level diagnostic system for my bus.  It covers engine, trans, wiring diagrams and ABS brakes along with computer reprograming capabilities.  $1500 but Oh Well.

I'll probably catch hell for this but bring on the codes!  Jack

[bevans6]

I can build a car from nuts, bolts, and parts in a pile, without a manual.  Mind you, it's a 1962 Austin Mini, but I can do it, and a whole lot of other cars of that era.  I just bought a brand new Mustang, 2017 6 speed manual transmission, I figure my last shot at a decent 300 hp car that handles with a manual transmission.  I bought an 8 year all maintenance package for it.  Oil changes, they put my winter tires on, everything included.  Why? The package includes brakes and clutches.  I have changed more brake pads and calipers in the last five years than in the previous 30, due to rusted pad backing plates and stuck pistons.  I haven't worn out a clutch in my life, but I have changed my share of throw-out and pilot bearings that plain dried out.  Don't even get me started on oxygen sensors, cam sensors, and all the other crap that lets my nice little V-6 put out more horsepower than the best of the 1970's, 80's, 90's and get damn decent fuel mileage while it does it.

[eagle19952]

Just last year i bought a 92 Ford Ranger....first time that i bought anything newer than the 1980s. In another decade or two maybe i will buy something from this century. 

Those will not survive...best find an late 70's....

[belfert]

My parents just bought a 2017 Hyundai Sonata hybrid with every bell and whistle.  I wonder how long the car will last without troubles?  It has a lifetime no mileage limit warranty on the hybrid battery.  If the car is still around in 20 years and the hybrid battery fails will Hyundai really be able to replace it at that time?

[Jeremy]

You've had four minor components (some just electrical and not electronic) fail in eleven years and you're all upset about and have decided to condemn all modern vehicles as a result? Just how much more grief would an old-style carburettor, manual choke, mechanical distributor, mechanical fuel pump etc etc have given you in that time? What about the significantly poorer gas mileage and less reliable starting you'd get on a vehicle with those systems rather than modern electronics?

I don't like many of the unnecessary electronic systems that some cars now have either, but none of the components in your list are unnecessary - indeed they and much more are all essential basic requirements for a vehicle to be legally manufactured and sold now, so quit griping about this stuff and just get with the programme.

Jeremy

[TomC]

The Caterpillar 3406B (mechanical) in my truck is still being made as the 3406C-basically the same engine with minor differences. Mainly because 3rd world countries do not want electronics for pumps or generators. Good Luck, TomC

[Zephod]

My experience of electronics is very poor. Phones and tablets that frequently don't last a year before they die, led lighting that fails quickly - sometimes within days etc. I say leave the clever dick electronic garbage out of things.


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[belfert]

My experience of electronics is very poor. Phones and tablets that frequently don't last a year before they die, led lighting that fails quickly - sometimes within days etc. I say leave the clever dick electronic garbage out of things.

If you buy bottom of the line LED bulbs and electronics they will fail prematurely.  My iPhone 6 plus was bought in Sept/Oct 2014 and is still working just fine.  I equipped my entire house with brand name LED bulbs in 2014 and not one has gone out.  I have a Dell corporate laptop I bought in 2011 that is still working just fine today and is still fast enough for my needs.

I use the buy one, cry once philosophy on most purchases including electronics.  I find that buying medium to high end is cheaper over time than buying low end over and over again.  I don't chase technology by replacing electronics just to have the latest and greatest.

My car is a 2016, but it doesn't have most of the fancy electronics because I bought the base model without all that stuff.  Some of the stuff would be nice to have, but not for $5,000 to $10,000 more.  I paid less for a mini-van than most pay for an average family sedan.

[Zephod]

Why does everybody assume I buy cheap stuff? I just don't get that! I've had expensive and cheap and while the cheap stuff does flake out at a faster pace, the higher end stuff isn't far behind it. Example - my 2007 MacBook became flaky in 2013. My Nexus 7 (again not a cheapo tablet) suddenly refused to turn on then decided to reformat itself and refuse to reboot from the factory image - all without my doing anything to cause it. Then there are LED bulbs, flashlights, lanterns. Then wristwatches - all of those flake out fairly randomly. Price has zero to do with it really.

For all those reasons I am very guarded about electronics and refuse to be tempted by most.


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[belfert]

Zephod, I assume you buy cheap stuff because you talk about how little you have spent on your bus conversion.  I have probably spent more money on my bus this year than you spent on your entire conversion other than the shell.  You used a cheap $10 to $20 Chinese solar controller.

It should be no surprise that a laptop fails after six years.  They generally take a lot of abuse if you actually carry them around like they are intended.  My employer budgets to replace laptops every four to five years because they start to fail rapidly after that point.  Desktops are kept longer because they take less abuse.