BCO: Doing the math, the cost of ownership.

[boxcarOkie]

Interesting topic, "What is a bus worth?" depends on how you look at all this I suppose.  It has been said that most people "know the price of everything, but the value of nothing."  That could apply to a bus purchase for sure.

It costs money to own a bus.  

My old hoopie is paid for, doesn't cost me anything usually, and like my friend is fond of saying, "she is much cheaper than a mistress."  If you are considering the purchase of a new bus, used bus or already have bought one.  

Here is something for you to chew on.

First off, calling yourself a "newbie" is kind of demeaning.  You trade in the old car and buy a new one, do you go around calling yourself a newbie?  I would think not.  What you are is a new bus owner ... Just my take on it.
 
When some so-called bus expert or bus board member here or anywhere else, calls you that, it is not a term of endearment, it is somewhat derisive in its very nature. My point is no one here or at other bus haunts has not just invented the wheel.
 

So here it is.  

Depreciation on a bus, old or new, is a very real thing.

 
Even if the bus is sitting in the garage, unused, money is being spent.  Depending on the age and condition depreciation may be taking money from your pocket. But if we ignore depreciation I cannot imagine any coach not having the cost of tires, batteries, insurance, license plates and all of the other costs associated with aging not being a factor.

Yet every single time the discussion revolves around fuel, there is not a person on this forum that does a little simple math that doesn't have a fuelish opinion.

Let's just say the cost of tires, batteries, insurance, plates, etc. has an actual cost of $2,000 to $3,000 per year. To make the math simpler let's say $2,500. Yet every single time the topic is discussed there will be someone that says they will park the bus because fuel is $X.XX.

Examine this logic for a moment.

If fuel is $2.00 there is unlikely to be a single soul making a remark like that. So using that as a basis we have folks that are willing to use their coaches that based on 8 MPG, $2,500 in indirect costs and 8,000 miles per year of use, which equals $2,000 in direct costs for a total of $4,500 per year, or $.56 per mile.

When fuel hits $4.00 some will talk about parking the bus or at least cutting back on trips. if they drive 1/2 the distance or 4,000 miles they just spent the same amount of money or $1.12 per mile. If they cut back to 2,000 miles the cost per mile is up to $1.75.  When they think of it that way they need to realize each additional mile only costs $.25.

What few actually do is just set a budget, determine how much they have after paying for tires, batteries, insurance etc. is to use it all up, shortening or lengthening their trips as needed, or just recognize they cannot afford a bus and quit whining.

Unfortunately they will moan and groan, or shift the topic to something else.  It is always much easier to defer maintenance, drive on old tires, and generally exhibit a less than stellar outlook on life all because they have a hobby that is expensive.  That is what a thread drifter does, and often, they are all over the place.

If you want to see some real costs of ownership, do a calculation for the guy that just spent $1.7 million for a new coach. In five years his coach will be worth 40% of his purchase price.  That would qualify as a justifiable reason to whine.

What can I say, "slow day at the old goat farm" and I am not into Sixty-Minutes.  Just thought I would throw my hat into the ring and see what comes back.

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[Jim Eh.]

Hmmm. The cost of ownership....

They way I see it is, at least we actually own something.

My somewhat seemingly more affluent neighbors down the street ALWAYS let us know that they are going to some exotic vacation destination. They don't retain ownership of the aircraft, they don't retain ownership of the 4.5 star hotel/resort, and they don't retain ownership of all those fancy upscale restaurants.

In fact, what they do "retain" is memory of the $3K - $5K for a trip that they possibly contracted some strange disease from the water, possibly some luggage or personal belongings missing or damaged from the upscale baggage handlers that have the finesse of a Fedex driver delivering a new TV, and sometimes the 3rd degree sunburn from falling asleep on the brightly flowered chaise lounge beside the over chlorinated pool. Ah yes, they retain their memories.

A little tough parking that in the driveway if you ask me.

[Jon]

Don is expressing a reality bus owners get to know. Few of us sit down and do that type of math before we dive into the hobby. If we did the math some of us would not ever own a bus. Some avoid the type of costs listed, usually by denying the need. (I don't need any new expensive tires because my 15 year old tires look good and they hold air.) Some incur greater costs because they have others work on their coach.

The points he has made however are valid and the only variable is the age of the coach, how much work on the bus is done by the owner, and the price of items beyond our control such as tires, insurance, batteries and depreciation.

I look at my coach ownership as a hobby. I enjoy traveling in the coach and have been doing it since 1990. Although I am not inclined to convert my own coach, I rarely allow anyone to work on my coach and tend to do almost everything including repairs, routine maintenance and modifications. Not so much as to save money, but because when I am not driving it I enjoy working on it. It has become a year round hobby. Can I justify ownership? No. But I also don't expect people to feel compelled to justify expensive vacation travel, the cost of golf or skiing, or boating.

[scanzel]

The way I see it is that just about any kind of hobby/interest costs money. So it just depends what your hobby is and how much you want to spend. I have about $70,000 into mine and maybe a year to go to get it 95% done. My nephew said that he could stay in a lot of hotels for $70,000 and I said yes your correct but I can travel and stay in places where there are no hotels and enjoy the beauty or solitude of the location. As Bus Nuts we do it because we want to.

[Jon]

If I had a dollar for every time I had to listen to someone tell me how many nights I could spend in a luxury hotel room for what I have spent on my bus, I could actually afford my bus.

[boxcarOkie]

I always get a special kick out of some cruise ship refugee, full of bad food, spent half of his cruise in the bathroom, and has a credit card bill waiting on him at home, something akin to the National Debt.  

Interesting valid concerns, just reminds me even more of why I love my old bus.  I know who slept in the bed before me, who used the poop shooter last, and where the food came from and the lady who prepared it for me.

Ah Jon, my favorite unemployed Prevost owner, it has been awhile since I have seen you commenting over here.  I respect your opinions, at least you get out and drive the ____ out of your Liberty, it isn't a driveway queen like mine!

Isn't October an interesting month?

Ghouls, walking dead, little kids begging food or spray painting your bus.  Old movies on the nostalgia channel where people do strange thing ... Like if staying in a haunted house, women will investigate any strange noises in their most revealing underwear.  Where all the beds have special L-shaped cover sheets that reach up to the armpit level on a woman but only to waist level on the man lying beside her.  

And my wife wondering why I spend all this time in the shop polishing my wheels.

Great comments boys ... thanks for the input.

BCO

[bigred]

When that "Bus Bug" bites ,you tend to lose all objectivity !! When I bought mine ,I knew very little about the aspects of owning a 22 year old bus .Sure !! I knew how to drive one .Crossed that bridge a long time ago but as far as working on one or how much it was going to cost me to own one ,Ihad no clue ,but like another gentleman said,it's a hobby! If I am not working on mine I am shining ,waxing or blacking tires.Had a guy stop by the other day and asked how in the world I kept it looking so good.Simple,I replied.I never use it !! Breaks my heart ,but I am about ready to sell mine .I have basically fixed every thing that was wrong with it and have got about 75 grand tied up in something I would be lucky to get 55 or 60 out of.My reason for selling would not be because of things most people think of.M,y reason would be lack of use!! From what my machinics tell me ,these 8v92s need to be driven and driven hard.That and having no access to a pit has got me seriously thinking .Still don't know for sure .

[TomC]

Cost of ownership and running the bus-you could stay in the nicest hotels. But-my wife has a bad back and likes being able to move around or lay down while driving. Also, staying in your own bed everynight. Then, if anything goes wrong, since you built it, you know where to look. And on and on... Good Luck, TomC

[edvanland]

Don't care at my age it is what we want. Box car willie is right, mine is paid for. Licenses plates cost me $48 per year, ins $500 and it is in the garage ready to go. You know how grey dogs are always ready to run. Let me out of my yard.
ED & Janet

[Iceni John]

If one chooses to live in one's bus as a full-timer, without also owning a sticks-and-bricks house, then all these financial notions are irrelevant.   At that point the bus can easily become a very wise investment.

Regarding it being cheaper than a mistress, my girlfriend ruefully calls my bus The Mistress, saying that I spend more time with her than with her.   I guess I have the best of both worlds, or maybe the worst . . .

John

[Jon]

I will lay claim to making the statement the bus is cheaper than a mistress. Don will agree I said that on more than one occasion.

I spend a lot of money on my bus "hobby". But my bride of 55 years has always made it clear if I were to get a girlfriend the cost would be 50% of everything I own. In that context my bus is far cheaper than a mistress, although possibly as frustrating (I'm guessing).

[oltrunt]

Like many "successful" people I spent a lifetime laboring under "deferred gratification".  Some day I'll------   When I retire-------  When the house is paid off-------etc., etc.

WELL, I got there and I have a bus!  Just going into the garage and looking at her provides me a smile and INSTANT gratification!  I don't even think of the cost because in the big picture it isn't important.  The unbridled joy I get out of heading out in my bus even to a local camp ground more than makes up for what I've spent on her. Too much fun!

Jack

[boxcarOkie]

I will lay claim to making the statement the bus is cheaper than a mistress. Don will agree I said that on more than one occasion.

A man is sitting in a restaurant eating lunch with a woman, and his wife walks in.  She see's him sitting there, so she walks up to the table, sits down, and introduces herself to the other woman.  The other woman in turn, gets up rather abruptly, and suddenly without saying anything, leaves.

The wife looks at the husband and says, "Who was that?" and the husband replies, "that was my mistress." 

The wife then says, "How long have you had her?" and he says, "about a year or so."

The wife then tells the husband that he will have to give her up. 

He declines, and answers with, "No.  I am gonna keep her."

The wife, now clearly irritated and perplexed says to him, "If you insist in this, I will divorce you." 

The husband tells her, "Well, if that is your decision, go right ahead, I am still keeping her.  You had best think this one out."

The wife asks him, "think out what?" 

He replies, "You get a divorce, you are on your own.  Alimony only lasts so long, and you will have to get out and work for a living just like everyone else.  You do not have any job skills and very little education.  This would not be a good move on your part."

About that time, the wife, looking around the room, spots a friend of theirs, having lunch with another woman. 

She asks the husband, "Who is that woman eating with Mark, that is not Alice."

The husband says, "that is his mistress." 

The woman intently stares at the couple, and takes it all in, mulls it over in her mind and then says:  "Well, I think OUR's is a lot better looking."

Yeppers ... Jon said it.  I can testify to that.

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