Broken down, toasted engine??

[Utahclaimjumper]

 DON'T BELIEVE IT!.Too much airflow WILL CAUSE heating problems,, the air must remain in contact with the fins long enough to dissapate heat and carry it away.  Thats why waffle fins work so well, then add more area and slow the air speed.>>>Dan

[opus]

Easy to say because its not my money but I learned long time ago to do it right, do it one time and be done with it!  Great call on American Fleet.  Never used them but I know people that have and never a negative report!

[busfan]

DON'T BELIEVE IT!.Too much airflow WILL CAUSE heating problems,, the air must remain in contact with the fins long enough to dissapate heat and carry it away.  Thats why waffle fins work so well, then add more area and slow the air speed.>>>Dan

Were you replying to my post, or what the Radiator guy said to the other George with the broke down bus?

More airflow with a smaller cubic volume radiator is not a route I would feel comfortable with either..Sounds like he had one kicking around his shop he thought could make work, bigger the better.

Physics wise, more airflow the better!  It is my understanding that waffle fins provide more cooling area vs a rectangle and this was the reason for the extra cooling.

If the engine is at a point where the mechanical work creating the extra flow is creating more frictional heat than the airflow can dissipate there could be an argument.

[Lin]

Let me make an admittedly non-expert comment here.  One can not say that more or less airflow is better as if it is the only factor.  Yes, you can increase airflow by having less fins and tubes, but that also decreases the heat exchange surface.  There is only so much heat that the air will carry off per surface area.  Of course, if you increase fins and tubes to the point that air barely passes through, you will not have much heat dissipation either.  Finding the right balance is what the engineering is about.  With that said, radiator manufacturers are certainly aware that you use their products for heat dissipation and do not design no-flow radiators.  They design bigger, thicker radiators to take on bigger heat loads, and they cost more to do it.  If someone told me my bus needed less radiator, I would thank them for their input and go to find someone that knew what he was talking about.

[Scott & Heather]

^ this. Listen to this. Good advice


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[Malamute]

HI, just got a recore done to my 1994 Prevost Series 60.The bill at the Rad Shop was $2600.00 Canadian plus tax.I removed and installed it myself.Nelson Rad in Grande Prairie Alberta was highly recommended  so I got them to do it. It was a 6 row core. I am very happy with it. My old core was badly plugged with Calcium.

[Iceni John]

Cooling need not be rocket surgery.   I say put in the biggest and best system you can, and if it has "too much cooling" then the thermostats will take care of that  -  they determine how much water flows through the radiator and at what temperature.   Correct thermostats prevent over-cooling.   Simple!   That salesman who's trying to sell you something smaller is full of hot air (so to speak).

When I was researching radiators before I got my new core, I was amazed at how ignorant some radiator sales people are about how cooling systems work.   For example, Delbert at Stanton Radiator told me in all seriousness that lower temperature thermostats would cool my engine better!   Wow!   if only it were that simple.

John

[luvrbus]

A new 7 core radiator 41x 36-1/2 inches with new tanks and side rails for a 1996 Eagle in other words a new radiator cost me $2800.00 plus $280.00 shipping from Texas ouch !!!!,then with a $600.00 fan,$1200.00 for a fan clutch plus the new hoses and clamps cooling is not cheap I am at $5200.00 just for parts no labor I work cheap   ,I did get lucky the charge air cooler (CAC) tested good 

[Geom]

Ok guys, thanks a lot! That's great info.

So it sounds like the second guy is probably the better quote.
And it sounds like a reasonable amount, based on what others have said they've paid.
This will be for a 5 row rad (2 more than original) that is roughly the same thickness as the current one.
So it should fit ok.

I don't have the ability to remove and redo anything here myself. So whatever solution I go with has to be cradle-to-grave handled externally.

I'm liking the idea of a whole new radiator, complete with new tank and mounts.
And I like that better than one cobbled together from old parts and new.
The cost differential is really not that large for the new one.
And I never really thought "you need less radiator" actually made any real sense.
While I could see the "more air movement" argument, taking away surface area that all that air can use to dissipate heat seemed downright... Silly

Thanks again!
George

[luvrbus]

I don't think you need to worry about too much air flow with Taurus fan setup George, when GM changed to a direct drive with a fan clutch it was so much a better setup IMO 

[GM0406]

No one seems interested in what I had to say about opening up the back door to allow heat to escape!  Here is something you all seem to be ignoring too.  I had a 1979 Olds Custom Cruiser diesel.  Anyone remember those?  Original engine no good period.  But GM then came out with the Goodwrench roller cam engine and bingo it was a winner!   Only problem is those Cruisers were prone to heat with only a 3 row radiator.  So put a 4 row in it and we saw better control.  But not enough!  Fan clutch was not reliable so went to a stainless steel flex fan.  Better for sure, but ate water pumps.  Better yet would have been a nylon flex fan, but it required a big one and they didn't exist.  Had that car in Death Valley one summer and the GM guys testing new cars were there.  Told them to look at the Cruiser to see if they could recognize the modifications.  They did, but didn't have much to say.  As time went on, put a truck locking torque converter 350 trans in that car, but it couldn't hold the torque of the diesel and wiped the clutches out in it.  79 was pencil injectors and so smoked, but power it had for sure.  100 mph no problem.  But still heated too much for me.  Then one day while at a tire shop, I told them to go ahead and replace the noisy pump with a rebuilt I had in the back.  They looked at it and didn't trust it.  I said, Ok, put in what you have.  They put an Airtex pump in that rocket and by golly took it up Donner after that and she never got over 1/2 gauge, which was impossible prior to that pump.  I'll just finish by saying that the ideal wagon would be same car with same Goodwrench roller cam diesel, but micro injector heads, with a turbo 400 behind it and a gear vendor overdrive behind that.  I think you would also need an '82 injection pump to go with that setup, so all these diesels share common problems.  Heat being the main actor in the melt down process!  FWIW huge item is the pump!

[luvrbus]

Any update on George he has been down a month now

[Detroitenginespecialist]

We received George's engine 2 days ago and we are anticipating that it will be ready to ship back to him next week.

[luvrbus]

Seems like 6 to 8 weeks is the norm now for a engine rebuild 

[Geom]

OK, quick update

Not a whole lot has changed so far

As Brian said my old engine arrived at their facility this week and they'll be working on it over the next few days, to turn it around early next week.

Shop here continues to check the supporting cast of parts to make sure they're still up to par.

I have a list of parts that I need to source (I'll post in more detail in another post).

A lot of the other components appear to be in good shape but,

1) the power steering pump is shot. The vanes are worn and it should be replaced
2) the power steering piston up front needs to either be rebuilt or replaced. It has leaked for a long time and squealed on occasion. The shop removed and identified the problem as the ball valve actuator thing. It is worn and loose. In addition the piston itself has a small fluid leak around one of the gaskets. The shop here is trying to figure out where to repair/rebuild it if that can be done, or where to source it if it should be replaced.
3) the radiator fan appears to be old and the plastic appears brittle. While it is fine now and only has minor chips in it, we decided replacing it is the right course of action, lest it come apart at a later time and launch itself into the new radiator
4) the motor mount bushing needs to be replaced. He's already replacing the two rectangle ones on the bottom, but there's a big rounded-square looking one with a round bushing on one of the corners.

I'll post the above parts in a separate post, but if anyone has a line on any of the above, I'd really appreciate it.

For now the shop continues to try and source parts and a few minor things, until the engine gets here.
We have been down for about a month now. A lot of that time has been hurry-up-n-wait.
While removing the engine went quick, the disassembly of the supporting cast of parts took a long time.
Then getting the engine crate here and my engine back to American Fleet took about 8 days.
And in the meantime just working on all of the bits and pieces that have issues.

No one's fault really, I guess that's just how things go sometimes. I'm just really glad we're somewhere where we can be for this long. We ditched the hotel idea three days in (I'm really not a fan of hotels) and managed to find a decent little cottage using Airbnb.

I will say that the value of Internet access to resources like this board, Airbnb, others' experience, and just plain ole google searches has been immeasurable. I can't imagine what managing a cluster F like this would've been like 15 years ago, lol.

So thank you all again, for helping me manage this )
George