Another Bus Crash Atwater California

Dave5Cs · August 02, 2016, 04:07:31 PM

Charter Bus nearly split in half front to back. A hyway light pole sticking out of it 8 foot from the rear. It was going from Mexico to Washington State. Bus company has 44 violations previously including drivers with no licenses. When they pulled it off the pole was still bolted down and was not bent. 5 were killed. In Atwater California. 12 being treated in Modesto Ca hospital.
Dave

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/08/02/least-5-dead-california-tour-bus-crash/87947222/

Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM · August 02, 2016, 05:15:08 PM

Horrible accident. I thought these light poles were designed to break off at the bottom when hit by a vehicle like all of the other road and highway signs etc. Does anyone know about the design of these large signs?

Dave5Cs · August 02, 2016, 08:08:42 PM

Gary they are you are correct. They had to unbolt this one they showed them doing it on the local news after they pulled the Bus back off of the pole. The whole time that pole didn't move. They say they are investigating why it didn't shear off. Amazing how it cut right through the Bus to the back. They said the poled push two isles on the right side from the front to the back and everything in-between was crashed.
Dave5Cs

luvrbus · August 03, 2016, 07:21:32 AM

I never heard of the larger overhead signs shearing they don't on the Interstate system anyways only the small marking signs that set on a angle base with 4 bolts.The larger signs are made to withstand 200 MPH winds fwiw they check the signs close in most states re torquing the bolts and checking for any loose bolts and nuts.Those signs are under a tremendous load 24/7/365

Tikvah · August 03, 2016, 12:19:22 PM

Wouldn't there be some heavy steel, like a straight axle, that would have stopped this?

Seems odd to cut through that perfectly.. . photoshop?

Dave5Cs · August 03, 2016, 12:33:47 PM

That was no Photoshop. This was on the news 20minutes after it happened on our local station because there was a Helicopter there on some other story on a fire down there in Livingston CA. They got there right after it happened and were showing the top of the Bus live until they told them to back off because of the 4 bodies they were taking out over 24 hrt badly and are still in the hospital and 11 got released this morning.
NTSB is going to study the structure of the Bus and Buses in general and suggest restructuring them. The CHP said it was the worse bus crash they have ever seen. It was opened like a tuna can. they said the seats bunched up on the right side with people between them and that was some of the reason why it didn't keep going to the differential besides all the metal in the bottom and floor as well as seats just lost its momentum by then.
Dave5Cs

Iceni John · August 03, 2016, 01:33:27 PM

With independent front suspension there's nothing to stop the pole from scything through until it hits the rear axle. However, a solid front axle would either have sheared in two, or would have pushed all the way back though the underfloor luggage bays, so it probably wouldn't have made any real difference anyway. If a 20-ton mass traveling at 60 MPH hits something immovable, there's an awful lot of kinetic energy to be dissipated in a second or so. I can't imagine how any different bus design would have changed the outcome of a crash like this.

John

Dave5Cs · August 03, 2016, 02:39:58 PM

It did stop before it hit the rear axle, as all of the reports have stated. There is lots they can do to make them safer IMHO. We know how they are built. and it is mainly based on how cheaply they can carry the most amount of passengers they can. We have to pay for them in cars weather we want them or not. We never hear about them in buses do we? It would cost to much and the manufactures and the dealers could not make money off them. This was also a Bus that originated in Mexico so probably wasn't up to US standards if in the past they had 44 US DOT violations. The company has been sited in the past for unlicensed drivers although they said the driver here they believe was license.

Dave

luvrbus · August 03, 2016, 02:54:52 PM

You can see in the photos where the driver hit the sign right at the stairs probably the weakest place on a bus I think it would have have been less damage and death if he hit the sign head on JMO .I wonder if that is a Dinia bus, it sorta looks like Mercedes or Vanhool too with the weird bolt pattern on the wheels

Lee Bradley · August 03, 2016, 03:20:54 PM

The frame section that holds the IFS on my Neoplan is some of the heaviest frame work on the bus. It anchors the upper and lower a-arms and ties the upper and lower ladders of the bus's space frame together. I think it is just as strong as an straight axle but nothing is going to up to that crash. It would also have gone through the 140 gallon fuel tank just behind the front wheels; quite a mess.

DoubleEagle · August 03, 2016, 06:43:32 PM

And it all might have been because the driver fell asleep! I had an experience that scared me good years ago when I was the relief driver on a sports team bus charter. I had driven 400 miles, so we switched to the other driver (a woman). I sat reclined in the seat behind her to get some rest, and within an hour I saw her drift slowly to the right as she was passing a tractor trailer. When the Van Hool rear view mirrors were getting within inches of the trailer side, I jumped up and grabbed the wheel. Her eyes were closed. I gently said, "I'm ready to switch now", and she jumped. I never drove with her again. If I was not there, I suppose that the mirror snapping would have woken her up, but if there was no tractor trailer....

HB of CJ · August 03, 2016, 07:04:06 PM

Just wondering. How would have a 1984 or so Crown Supercoach schoolie have done if it had hit that pole at the same speed carrying the 50 passengers? Just wondering. Of course it is not practical to consider a 32 year old school bus to a much newer highway coach. What year, make and model of bus was involved? Respectfully.

kyle4501 · August 03, 2016, 08:26:32 PM

I seriously wonder how many crashes are like this one - hitting pole just like that bus did.

Crash tolerant design involves many compromises - - easy to say it ought to be better, however, it is often impossible to implement without reducing the effectiveness of other features.

No free lunch.

If the bus had stopped at the pole with no intrusion, more energy would have been imparted to the passengers. How many would have perished differently? Impossible to know.

Sad that so many were lost, glad that so many survived.

Boomer · August 03, 2016, 10:22:37 PM

Per FMCSA safety regulations it is unlawful to slipseat like that. Just sliding over to another seat is not qualified to log as off duty, and even if it was it has to be 8 hours. On long non stop trips a second driver has to be pre positioned down the road, ready to come off duty. Had to explain that to many school employees that wanted to warehouse kids on a non stop 1,000 mile trip to Disneyland and didn't want to pay for a second driver. Wonder how many of those passengers on the bus from MX were illegal.

DoubleEagle · August 04, 2016, 06:22:01 AM

Quote from: Boomer on August 03, 2016, 10:22:37 PM
Per FMCSA safety regulations it is unlawful to slipseat like that. Just sliding over to another seat is not qualified to log as off duty, and even if it was it has to be 8 hours. On long non stop trips a second driver has to be pre positioned down the road, ready to come off duty. Had to explain that to many school employees that wanted to warehouse kids on a non stop 1,000 mile trip to Disneyland and didn't want to pay for a second driver. Wonder how many of those passengers on the bus from MX were illegal.

That happened in the days of paper logbooks and cheap charter bus operators, but the rules for buses are different now than for truck drivers. The cheap charter bus operators still remain.