1973 Eagle conversion being wired for shore power etc. Need Suggestions!

Gary LaBombard · June 21, 2016, 04:15:48 PM

Hello Everyone,
I am into my new project on my Eagle Conversion (Rustless Money Pit) as most of you may relate my post to. Now this will be lengthy, those of you who do not like my post to begin with please just go on to other stuff on the board cause I will bore you to death, AS USUAL. Those of you that continue to read my problem with my bus well I look forward to ("Constructive Advice") and please no ball busting. Thanks to all ahead of time.

I am starting to install my House power installation and here is what I wish to do and think I have a handle on this project but just want to be sure from veteran converters. I will list thing in numerical order so if you make constructive suggestions etc. please refer to the number you are posting a reply about to keep my head straight. Again thanks ahead of time.

I do not plan to use any automatic switching devises as I do not trust them, (paranoid) and want to be safe and have everything MANUAL connections that have to be made by me to have current coming from one source or the other. I do not want to accidentally have the generator and shore power feeding at the same time.

I am wiring my bus for 50 amp service, I have two roof airs but we are totally power conservers but in weather like now we may welcome both airs on at the same time. I will indicate where I wish my power sources to feed to in the below information. Please read carefully to get the full meaning and plan I have to keep you straight as I am trying to do.
I have a:

a.   1500 watt modified power inverter that is brand new never used but is 8 years old in the box.
b.   New Converter that I think I wish to use in situations while traveling and not wanting to run the generator and not needing air conditioning to use on a couple of citrus receptacles in the back and front of bus.
Here is my plan listing in numerical order:

1)   Have a marine connector under bus to connect up to shore power in camp grounds etc. This shore power connector to run to another connector similar to the marine connection for shore power in the bus on power panel wall that will have to be manually plugged into this power box so that the shore power will only feed the bus system when connected to this second connection box.

2)   Have my generator wired so when it is needed to supply power to the entire 110v system of the bus that you will have to manually connect the plug from the generator to the same connection box that the shore power connected to in the bus. This way there is no problem of double feedback of power any place and danger of fire etc. either shore power or generator power is being used and not both at the same time.

3)   From this (shore power / generator) connection box that both the shore power or generator connects to, this will feed my Bus Main 110v circuit breaker box to feed the entire 110v circuit of the bus.

4)   This main fuse Circuit breaker box that that the shore power or generator is connected to now will feed the entire bus electrical 110v system.

5)   One circuit breaker in the main fuse box will be selected to feed 110v to my Converter so that I can have 110v power converted to 12v circuits that will feed my 12v led lights in the cabin of the bus. All these 12v circuit systems are for in the cabin of the bus comfort, lights etc.

6)   My converter will also receive 12v feed from my two deep cycle batteries on the 12v side of the converter to also feed the 12v circuits when the converter is not being fed by the 110 main control panel to feed the 12v circuits and also charge my batteries.

7)   My modified sine wave inverter will be fed from my two 12v deep cycle batteries on the DC side and get 2 110v outgoing plugs on the AC side to feed special small power panel with circuit breakers marked for receptacles that this is 110v MODIFIED CIRCUIT. These special market receptacles will be next to the shore power 110v receptacles as not all cabin items work good on Modified Sine Wave I know.
I hope I have thought of everything I can at this moment, I will welcome SIMPLE suggestions to keep my system manual connected at all times but have power of one sort or other while traveling down the road. I will sometimes use the generator I am sure on hot traveling days but not often if not needed. Controlling power usage is a factor in our lives such as using and conserving water. If you make replies or suggestions, please refer to the number above with your suggestions. Thanks again ahead of time.
Gary

Gary LaBombard · June 21, 2016, 07:07:23 PM

I am a little disappointed, I was hoping to get some kind of good suggestions here on my new bus project today.

DoubleEagle · June 21, 2016, 07:57:32 PM

I would suggest two things: First, two A/C's might be enough when you are parked, but not when going down the road, if you are relying on them for the only cooling. Three would be better, but minimal. How comfortable do you want to be when crossing the West (if you want to go there)? Consider four or five roof mounts, or basement air units. Second: I have used manual marine-type switches on both of my Eagles to switch from Shore Power, Generator, or off. Simple, and they work effectively, and do not cost a great amount. I do not trust the automatic switches either.

Dave5Cs · June 21, 2016, 08:00:37 PM

Gary if it was me and its not, 1st Converters have a habit of cooking batteries, there are better things like simple Battery maintainers to keep the batteries up and I would use a transfer switch so when it came time to charge up the batteries you would just turn on your genny through that same switch automatically and the inverter if it has a charger would charge them up or the maintainer would if it does not. Just some ideas. I know you want it simple. Thats all I got.

Dave5Cs

Gary LaBombard · June 21, 2016, 08:19:09 PM

Double Eagle,
I do not plan only one trip across country when my grand daughter graduates next year and that is why the pressure is on to complete bus conversion very, very soon. I feel a curtain across 1/3 or just behind the first air conditioner from one side to the other as we go down the road would help much in keeping the air forward. Not sure but just an idea. I have no plans of installing more air conditioners. Let my wife's next husband to that if he is too hot! My inverter does have a charger, but I will use a regular charger to bring up batteries as I will have one on board to bring up to full load when stopped at a campsite etc. I feel putting more money in the Rustless MONEY PIT is fruitless now as my age and health are saying, "Git "R"R Done" so making the bus road worthy now is my priority. No more big changes to be made, no new powers in bigger engines, no more airs, no roof raises etc. All done, All Done nearly now. Real tired now after all this time. Thanks for the suggestions too, as well as Dave5C.

bevans6 · June 22, 2016, 05:42:21 AM

I think your plan is completely workable. It's not what I would do now, but it is extremely close to what I did the first time I wired my bus.

Comments.

50 amp service is two legs of 120VAC providing 120 and 240 volts with 50 amps available on each leg, for a total of 100 amp of 120VAC if you use both legs. You don't mention what kind of generator you have, but you need to plan how you will tie the generator into the panel for best usage of its power.

You no doubt know about bonding ground and neutral in the power source only, which means in this case you need the generator to bond neutral and ground.

Having a special outlet for inverter power is fine. What I did is actually wire a number of outlets to my inverter, and a number of outlets that are generator/ouutside power only. All of the inverter outlets are also powered by the generator and outside power if that is available. Makes it seamless to run the TV or computer without having to switch plugs and outlets. Of course, my inverter has an internal ATS, and I use an external ATS as well, to get fully automatic switching of all of my power sources, but that's because I believe that the switches are more reliable and safer than moving plugs manually. To each his own paranoia.

You are of course aware that pure sine wave inverters are better than modified, and that they cost about $100 a kilowatt now for simple, standalone units. OTOH, using what you got has a certain charm all of it's own...

I am a big fan of converters for 12v if you don't have an inverter with a built in charger. They are optimized to supply 12 volt loads and charge/maintain batteries both, which normal battery chargers are not, and so do a very good job when used in the way you intend. Modern converters have computer controlled three or four stage charging systems and do an excellent job of maintaining batteries. Old generation converters indeed would boil batteries in a heartbeat if not managed closely. Be mindful of getting into a loop situation where you are running the converter to charge the battery and running the inverter as well.

When you pick your load panel, you might look for one that is designed for home generator use. I have such a panel that has manually interlocked switches for the two supply feeds and for neutral, and you switch between outside power and generator by throwing that gang of switches. This is a far better way of manually switching between outside power and generator power than the idea of using plugs, and being fully manual should satisfy your paranoia.

Brian

Oonrahnjay · June 22, 2016, 06:26:23 AM

Gary, one small thing. I like to think about my plans using the precise words. I know what you meant, but I think you said "a plug from shore power and a plug from the generator". What you'll need is a *socket* from each of your power sources and a single plug on the cable going to your breaker panel. It's a small thing, but it helps me keep items, location, number to buy, etc. correct in my head. (Sort of like I never say "I'm going to gas up the diesel tank." It just helps me to keep in mind that the only thing that goes in the diesel tank is diesel fuel - it also doesn't mislead anyone else who thinks that they'll be kind to me by putting some in the tank as "a favor".)
HTH, BH

DoubleEagle · June 22, 2016, 06:30:00 AM

Since you will be going out west next year you had better hope than the current heat wave & drought will be over. One A/C with a curtain will not be adequate during the day. I took my Model 05 Eagle with three roof mounts out west across Texas with all three going and did not feel comfortable when it was in the high nineties. A lot of heat comes through the windshield, and cool air tends to gravitate rearward when going down the road. If there are any air leaks in the front or the entrance door, the hot air will shoot in adding to the A/C load. Have several fans aimed at you up front, and several rolls of Bounty (the quicker picker upper) for the sweat. Other Busnuts who live out west can probably advise you best what works during severe heat.

Gary LaBombard · June 22, 2016, 06:36:42 AM

Thanks for all the information fella's, now to put the suggestions all in perspective which will take time. Double Eagle, We will be going out west in Early June it looks like, Not sure of the weather then but will check that out also. Maybe sept. is a better time to go eh?

Oonrahnjay · June 22, 2016, 07:36:57 AM

Quote from: Gary LaBombard on June 22, 2016, 06:36:42 AMThanks for all the information fella's, now to put the suggestions all in perspective which will take time. Double Eagle, We will be going out west in Early June it looks like, Not sure of the weather then but will check that out also. Maybe sept. is a better time to go eh?

Off topic, but maybe helpful. I used to work for a company that had a shop near Deer Valley airport in Phoenix. My experience foing out there was that early June and September were good choices because of the school year -- beginning the last week of June or so up to Labor Day, hotels/motels/campgrounds are full @ high prices, lines are long at attractions, etc. And August is fiery hot.

DoubleEagle · June 22, 2016, 10:51:41 AM

Looks like this year the west is fiery hot (in more ways than one) in mid June. When I got my latest Eagle I chose one that has a three-ton central air plus a separate driver A/C (original equipment) for just such situations. I am considering adding roof airs as backup, and for campgrounds that do not have 50 Amp hookups.