Electronic Engines

[TomC]

When I bought my first truck, 1980 KW K100C 86" Aerodyne it had an 8V-92TTA "Fuel Squeezer" 365hp in it. I had it opened up to 435hp and the fuel mileage stayed the same-4.8 with as low as 4.2mpg in a head wind. The 8V-92 is maintenance intensive. The suggested maintenance (beyond the oil change)-100k adjust valves and injection, 200k adjust valves and injection roll in new rod and main bearings, 300k adjust valves and injection rebuild turbo and blower, 400k adjust valves and injection roll in new rod and main bearings; 500k in frame overhaul.
Then bought my '85 I still have with Cat 3406B. Maintenance (beyond 12k oil changes), adjust valves 100k, roll in bearings 500k. Then in frame overhaul when needed. I was happy to get 5.4mpg.
Engines after 2010 that use Urea exhaust injection, the EGR has been reduced from 25% to 10% getting much better fuel mileage. Trucks now with automated transmission running direct top gear, 2.50 rear end ratio and single drive axle (the tag axle air suspension is integrated with the traction control. If axle slip is detected, the air suspension releases and puts more pressure on the drive axle). 80,000lb trucks cruising at 62mph are getting 8mpg.
The electronics allow the mechanics to have the trucks tell them what's wrong. But the trucks are so complicated, one of my customers that bought 20 trucks a year was also ordering the trucks with 5yr/500,000mi warranties bumper to bumper, even though the cost was $12,000 per truck. But when you think of it, over 500,000mi that works out to be 2.4 cents per mile for full coverage. And compared to the emissions my mechanical truck puts out, it would take at least 100 new trucks to duplicate the emissions. Good Luck, TomC

[kyle4501]

Electronics are unbeatable -- When they are working properly.

With the rate they are improving them, the fact they are vin specific, and the lifespan in commercial use, -- by the time the vehicle is 15 years old, the system is obsolete. Then when old stock inventory is used up, what are the options?
When the factory stops supporting the older computer control systems, your cost to repair rise. I have first hand experience with a car that is in perfect mechanical condition, but is going to cost more than it is worth to get the computer fixed.

That is the reason I wanted a MUI 8V92. If it starts & you can keep it oiled & cool, it will get you home.

[belfert]

How many of today's heavy trucks will still be on the road in 15 years?  Local trucks and highly specialized trucks seem to be the only really old trucks I see on any regular basis.  How many Ford heavy trucks from before they changed to Sterling do you still see around?

[luvrbus]

How many of today's heavy trucks will still be on the road in 15 years?  Local trucks and highly specialized trucks seem to be the only really old trucks I see on any regular basis.  How many Ford heavy trucks from before they changed to Sterling do you still see around?

You don't see many trucks on the road over 5 years old now regardless of make,tour operators are selling off buses now at 7 years 

[DoubleEagle]

The main reason to avoid electronic engines for our coaches is total cost of running and ease of maintenance. We are not making money by running them, so the high cost of the latest is hard to justify. Those of us that are retired and on modest income are best off with mechanical engines that we can handle the maintenance on. Going to a dealer garage to fix a 2-cycle or Allison transmission costs a lot; many of us would look for a used whatever part first, and put it in ourselves. Beyond the simple economics that forces us to do this, there is the pride of ownership of a coach that you know the details of like no other, and the satisfaction of having the skills to handle most everything that comes up.

[kyle4501]

Soon, they wont have to directly legislate old vehicles off the road. The inability to source/ service the electronics will take care of it.

I hope I'm wrong . . . . . .

[luvrbus]

Most buses here are mechanical 2 stroke very few are 4 stroke electronic engines that is why you hear more about 2 stroke failures  

[kyle4501]

Over on the cruise control thread, Someone asked what you would do if the car ecm died on the road - -My response to that would be that I have many options - have it towed, repair it there, go get my suburban & trailer to haul it myself.

I don't have the option of hauling it myself if my coach dies on the road.

BTW, I do have experience hauling a 40 foot bus. Towing rates start at $4 per loaded mile & go up from there - Assuming you can find someone to do the job. Believe it or not, lots of the operators who can haul your bus aren't interested in you - they have a full schedule with regular business customers who aren't as fussy about the service.

[DoubleEagle]

Over on the cruise control thread, Someone asked what you would do if the car ecm died on the road - -My response to that would be that I have many options - have it towed, repair it there, go get my suburban & trailer to haul it myself.

I don't have the option of hauling it myself if my coach dies on the road.

BTW, I do have experience hauling a 40 foot bus. Towing rates start at $4 per loaded mile & go up from there - Assuming you can find someone to do the job. Believe it or not, lots of the operators who can haul your bus aren't interested in you - they have a full schedule with regular business customers who aren't as fussy about the service.

Not all tow operators can handle a bus with a tow truck. In many cases they need a longer reach boom to lift the front wheels of the coach that are farther back than a truck would be, and then there is the problem of disconnecting the driveline with less clearance underneath. Flat beds might put the top of the coach in harm's way. Being towed is something to avoid. Maybe we should have 4X4's or positraction duallies as toads so that they could get the coach to a safer place in a pinch. I once moved a 05 Eagle with a old Land Rover to get it out of the way when it had a bad fuel problem.

[LuckyChow]

I had the ECM fail on my  bus about a year and a half ago.  I was having all kinds of codes generated, such that you knew all those things couldn't go wrong at the same time.  Turns out to be the circuit board in the ecm was being corroded by the leaking battery.  Yes folks, if you have a DDEC IV, your ECM has a battery in it.  Forgot to mention the battery is not considered replaceable by Detroit Diesel.  There are a few places that will rework them for you, but they are third party and strangely, mostly in Texas.  So if you have a DDEC IV that's between 12 and 16 years old, better get you a spare.  

The failure happened not too far from my home while I was at the lake for a long weekend.  Upon leaving the campground, the check engine light came on.  The engine derated.  I was really concerned that the derate would not allow me to get out of the campground as there were a couple small but very steep hills in the campground.  I barely pulled out of those in 1st gear.  Once on the main road, it would run about 45 mph.  Since these were back roads, I made it home okay.  Even though mine has been replaced, I have a spare in the basement that is only a couple years old.  I should probably go ahead and get it programmed as I couldn't install and operate it unless it was programmed first.  Came off a different type bus.  

[luvrbus]

Not all tow operators can handle a bus with a tow truck. In many cases they need a longer reach boom to lift the front wheels of the coach that are farther back than a truck would be, and then there is the problem of disconnecting the driveline with less clearance underneath. Flat beds might put the top of the coach in harm's way. Being towed is something to avoid. Maybe we should have 4X4's or positraction duallies as toads so that they could get the coach to a safer place in a pinch. I once moved a 05 Eagle with a old Land Rover to get it out of the way when it had a bad fuel problem.

One time I pulled a bone head deal on the way to Idaho fuel was high in Ely Nv and I was running low and my wife told me buy at least 50 bucks worth to be on the safe side.
The male deal kicked in naw we can make to Flying J in Wells no problem.I ran out of fuel 11 miles south of Wells no friginn cell service to call CoachNet.We were towing a Jeep I put it in low range ( a 4 banger) and with the tow bar attached she pushed the Eagle for the 11 miles to F/J I never ran out of fuel again all the $#!% she gave me I didn't want more of that  

[Tom Y]

I carry a spare ECM, trans computer and DD3 chambers. I guess even at 33' I have to much room.

[luvrbus]

I think any DDEC from the 11 on has a battery that goes bad I know you cannot disconnect the battery and reset the ECM like you could on the DDEC 1

[sledhead]

I see it the other way .... my biggest fear with the old 6v92ta was a brake down on the road far away from home and in my case in a different country .I have all my work done in newville pa . and I do tones of preventative maintenance + it only has about 56 k on the full out of frame rebuild  but you never know what can happen . at least with a newer engine there are more places that know how to work on it and most of the parts are easier to find + after looking for years to find a attec control box for a ht755 transmission I wanted to install and the only one I found Joe has and he needed it this year . I think us bus nuts will only have each other to help when that time comes

just my opinion

dave

[luvrbus]

I haven't heard from Joe did he limp home or get the 755 straighten out he never called so I guess he figured it out