Contemplating doing another conversion

[DoubleEagle]

The Series 60 is a good engine, no doubt. I have driven with it in trucks and buses and it has great torque and will last a good long time while getting decent fuel mileage for the horsepower generated. But, it does not sound like a Detroit, it does not give me a thrill, it does not stir memories of bus trips in the past. The reason many of us convert buses is for the love of the sound of that engine and the creativity of designing your own space with the use of the materials that you choose. If you can find a used conversion that someone else did with care with similar tastes, and all you need to do is change the curtains to make the wife happy, you have found the most cost effective conversion possible.

[luvrbus]

I love my Eagles but IMO the DL3 is a far better bus,the 8v92 is not that hard to cool in Eagle that's all I ever ran in my Eagle after a short encounter with the 8V71 in mountains.It does make me sad to see my last Eagle leaving Wed but the time as come for it to leave the nest and I will miss the sound of the 8v71 

[lvmci]

hi All, I  looked at.a.lot of  used, mostly "C3s", after selling the first Italian greyhound. look at the rivets for bubbles for hidden rust under the paint! I  wanted a non DDEC 8V92 and the rear radiator, preferred to retro fit a already converted bus, but couldn't pass up  $6500 semi stripped interior C3. great idea bus warrior about the removal of heat from the engine with the separate trans cooler,  Adam Walkup, your discription of heat problems with the 92s on hills is the exact problem I  have, I  was wondering if the C3s, with the.split.radiators,  had this problem when new, lvmci...

[TomC]

The 8V-92TA is thee hardest engine to cool. After I turbo'd my 8V-71, although we only increased the injectors from N65 to 7G75 (300hp @ 800lb/ft to 375hp @ 1125lb/ft), because I installed an air to air intercooler in front of the radiator (where the A/C condenser would have gone), the air flow isn't as good. I also increased the radiator from a 5 row straight fin to 6 row serpentine fin. Even so, on over 90 degree days, it would overheat. I installed 15 misters from Home Depot that helped. But the best was just to drill out two of them to 1/16" and now the water really dumps and truly can reduce the heat while pulling a grade. Good Luck, TomC

[buswarrior]

Yes, the 8V92T made trouble in the MCI.

This was an optional engine that would not forgive careless hands.

Think of it this way - the 8V92T is a volcano looking for a place to erupt.

Anything sloppy in the maintenance of the cooling system, including all the fan compartment seals...

Drivers who wouldn't slow up enough to grab the next gear to maximize the cooling system...

And if the HP was boosted, all bets are off.

MCI has a long history of shaving the cooling numbers:

Automatic transmission introduction tipped the balance in the early 70's MC7 tiny radiators.
'73 MC8 bigger rads, was marginal with 8V71 and auto.
'78 MC9 bigger rads again, got it right with 8V71/6V92T and auto.
'85 Adding 8V92t to the 102's tipped the balance again.
'93 B500R couldn't stay cool in the early D models.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[luvrbus]

MCI always kept their engines on low hp setting for cooling like around 400 hp for the 8v92,biggest mistake MCI owners make is looking for someone to bump a 8v92 up.Then comes the driver that is the most important part keeping a 8v92 cool change gears before the heat starts to rise and you are fine

[Boomer]

Clifford where is your 05 headed for?  Not scrap I hope.  FYI it was not a bad job replacing my front torsions, would have been better if I was 20 years younger lol.

[Scott & Heather]

Thanks for the thoughts. We acquired a nice C3 with a solid 8v92TA and Allison 748 trans with the touchpad. Though a 40' D was what we initially wanted but when the C came along with so so much work already done to it, we couldn't pass it up. $10k for a 1992 C with the following done to it was just too tempting:

New radiators
Completely refurbished cooling system new hoses, blowers, and the cooling box was completely rebuilt, new blower gearbox and shafts. Brand new Goodyear Rolling lobe bags all the way around, brand new brakes and bearings all the way around. New shocks, brand new tag axle bushings, new nylon air lines all the way around, 8" roof raise and completely pro level flat back framework and cap conversion done on the rear, reskinned sides with galvaneal, 24.5" aluminum rim alcoas all around except one, a completely brand new still in the boxes in frame cylinder kit genuine Detroit diesel for a 6v92 including cam cylinders, liners, etc in the luggage bay, a spare Allison 748, brand new electric air wipers with delay and touchpad controls and brand new chrome Ramco heated power mirrors. All those things added up to value for us...maybe in the end a D would have been a better choice. I guess we are still young at 33 years old so someday I'm sure we have a third conversion in us  


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[lvmci]

hi All, Clifford showed me how dirt and grime had collected between the fins of both radiators, simply by shining a powerful flashlight thru the radiators, and I  couldn't see the light. using finn cleaners from airconditioning supply store, and then disolving internal radiator dissolving corrosion rinse, I  have solved a great deal of my heat issues on my 8V92 engine, lvmci...

[luvrbus]

Clifford where is your 05 headed for?  Not scrap I hope.  FYI it was not a bad job replacing my front torsions, would have been better if I was 20 years younger lol.

It's headed for OKLA  Boomer I don't know what he is going to do with lol I really don't want to ask but I got a fair price I didn't give it away.If it wasn't for the one man size 2-1/4 nut they are not bad, glad you got it replaced   me I would need help now replacing one

[thomasinnv]

I  see some of the DL3's have the smaller 11.1 series 60. Naturally I would prefer the larger 12.7 but....if I come across one in really good shape with the 11.1 is it even worth considering? Or would a DL3 conversion be underpowered with the 11.1?

[AdamWalkup]

We have one 11.1 in our fleet, and I love it, however other people around the country talk about how they don't like them, and the fuel mileage is not as good.  What I have found is the 11.1 actually does BETTER on mileage, but you have to put the right gear ratio behind it.  If my memory is right, the 12.7 standard gear is 4.30:1, however most 11.1 have something like a 4.90:1.  With the slower rearend gear that poor engine is screaming at 70+ mph.

We have changed some of our 12.7 to a 3.73:1 ratio which does give slightly better fuel mileage on the highway, but about the same on any trip with much city driving.  With a 12.7 the mileage in our fleet is aprox:

4.30:1 =6.4 average mpg
3:73:1 =6.9 average mpg

Remember this is the 12.7 running commercial charter work, and the number could be somewhat off because we try to run the coaches with higher gears on the longer highway runs.

With the 4:90 gear in the 11.1 it really does not get any mileage, but if you change it to at least a 4.30 it does just fine.  Will not have the crazy fast pickup off the line, and might not pull the mountain as fast, but will do the job, probably more reliably since you aren't pushing the power through the engine or trans.  A number of companies here in the south try to turn the power DOWN on their 12.7's all the way to 350, just because you don't need all that crazy power sucking down fuel when the driver puts it to the floor

[lvmci]

Hi Tom, I'm  going to put in a misting system on both radiators, and will probably drill them out too,  I  had a distilled water system in the old 5A, but this time I'm  going to use an open spot on the water manifold and use the water pump to squirt from the holding tank. And invest in a 12volt remote control, to turn it on and off, tom, lvmci...

[TomC]

Since my water system is under my rear bed, I just plumbed into that and used a 12v water solenoid using the old emergency shut down wire that was now not used since Don Fairchild eliminated the emergency flapper on my engine. Just have to make sure the water pumps are on, then on the dash, have my switch labeled "misters". When the engine temp starts creeping up, once it gets towards 200 (I know now when the temp doesn't come back down and continues to creep up) I turn on the misters. About 2 minutes of operation will bring the temp right back down. Especially in the dry climate of the west. Have not tried it in the humidity of the east. But probably won't since those trips will be in my truck conversion when it is done. Good Luck, TomC

[DoubleEagle]

Curious about the misting system - how much water is consumed per minute of use, and how often does it need to be used when going up a serious grade? Is it a easier solution overall instead of larger or additional radiators?