Contemplating doing another conversion

[thomasinnv]

I must be nuts, and worse than that I already have the wife convinced it's a good idea lol. I was considering looking into a 102D3 about mid 90's with series 60. Then the wife and I thought 'if we're going to do it, we might as well just go ahead and do a DL3'. We're not in a big hurry, if it takes a year for the right deal to come along that's fine. We will take our time with this one.

What are the pros and cons of the dl3? What would be reasonable expected miles from the engine before overhaul? How difficult will it be to register as a motorhome in az?

I am finding mid 90's dl3's ranging from around 17k on up, averaging around 25k. Does that seem about right?

[buswarrior]

Look VERY carefully down the body skins for separation from the framing.

Inspect the floor on your hands and knees looking for the plywood and/or floor covering separating.

The DL3 flexed over every bridge hump...

That being said, a full on busnut tear apart and insulation job would give ample opportunity for tightening it all up.

S60 is a million mile engine.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Scott & Heather]

Totally nuts and welcome to the "I am converting more than one bus" club. We are nuts. Completely. Sounds exciting. Best bus conversion is one you can take your time and slowly convert. I have no idea what that's like because both of my buses are converted quickly


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[luvrbus]

 Derrick they are easy to register in AZ mine cost me 55 dollars a year,here they didn't even look when I had it changed from a commercial vehicle to a RV.
John and Steve had it registered as commercial and it would pop up as a bus and they wanted $965.00 a year to register as a bus   you know me $55.00 sounded a lot better than $965.00.Mine has the beam down each side to keep it from flexing, drive one the DL3 is a great bus it rides and drives great.Buy a west coast DL3 I have had the sides off mine repairing rust areas they are not as easy to repair rust on as a Eagle I can tell you for sure   

[TomC]

This is why I'm doing my truck conversion. Just got tired of the cramped engine compartment and crawling under the bus. Plus, not many mechanics know how to work on a 2 stroke Detroit anymore. Working on the truck is so easy compared to a bus. Granted the ride isn't the same, and forward visibility isn't good for passengers, but that's minor. Being able to have the truck worked on by anyone in the trucking industry is priceless. Good Luck, TomC

[Ed Hackenbruch]

 When they get old enough you pay a minimum fee in Az. You also get a discount if you do it for more than one year at a time.  Cost me $65.50 for 5 years on my 68 5A.     

[AdamWalkup]

This is just some general rambling, probably doesn't make a lot of since, and may speak to both sides of the topic, but here are some of my thoughts.  We have owned well over 50 MCI coaches since we started our charter company 20 years ago, and several MCI motorhomes.  We started with a MC8, owned lots of MC9's, plenty of 102 As and Cs, with every possible engine/trans combination available.  We are currently running a fleet of 19 D and DL coaches, all with series 60's.  They are by far the best of the batch, the last true workhorse.  I see others talk about the C being the best shell, and personally, for what you can buy D's for, why would anyone even think about anything other then a D with a series 60??  My parents have a Custom Coach factory converted C3 with an 8v92, and I can tell you the D with the S60 is a far superior machine, especially on the highway, and climbing hills.  Also the S60 is easy to work on, easy to find people to work on, and lots of available parts.

This being said the D, particularly the DL have some serious structural issues that MUST be delt with.  We have developed our own version of MCI's update plates that go over the rear air bag supports, and almost every seated coach (with over 500,000 miles) will need them, I've had to put the plates in 2001 model DL's.  If you do not have the templates, and have the skills to install them it is a very serious and costly project that you do not want to get involved with.  The engines are basically bullet proof, I have seen them with a million miles still running strong, as good as a new engine.  We have learned to rebuild ours at about the 800,000 mark just to catch them before any problems arise, but at that point they are still running perfectly.  The B500 can be very costly to deal with if it is bad, so be careful there, I have seen bills of 20k if they fail the "wrong" way.  However if you ever drive one you will want nothing else, as they shift so great, and with double overdrive get great mileage.  Overall if you get the right DL that has had the updates, it will be a bus for the rest of your life, that rides like a dream.  I personally think the D 40' is a stronger built bus, but most of my drivers think the DL 45' ride a little better.  Once the DL is loaded they really ride like a Cadillac.

My last thoughts (and nobody be offended) is why would anybody want to start converting a 500,000+ mile seated coach, as cheap as you can buy low mileage factory coaches.  I don't really want to sell mine, but it has been discussed to possibly sell in a year or so, and for what it is worth you could not start to convert a seated coach.  It is a DL3 45' with series 60, aprox. 130,000 original miles, 20KW turbo Martin generator, factory raised roof, factory solar system, gorgeous black walnut interior with granite floors, lots of work including new air bags, etc.  What is it worth?  75k on a good day??  I just don't see how you can buy a good low mileage bus for much less the 25k, then you start buying everything, and when your done you'll have 100 in it, and not a factory converted, factory raised roof, super low mileage bus that was stored inside, instead you have a 800,000 mile shell that was used commercially.  The numbers just don't seem to add up to me??

Just my 3 cents

[luvrbus]

There is a good looking 1995 Vantre MCI DL3 with 75,000 mile located in Houston for sale on www.tejascoach.com Sonja doesn't like the white laminate interior  or that baby would belong to me already  

[AdamWalkup]

I tend to agree with your wife, I like the rich look of my dark wood better, but how do you begin to convert a coach of this caliber for the cost???

[buswarrior]

that link is   www.tegascoach.com

If going traveling and camping is your goal, go buy something and do it.

If building the coach is the goal....

Be sure that both you and your significant other know which is the real goal...

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Scott & Heather]

AdamWalkup, since we own a newly acquired 102C3, I'm definitely interested in the difference of it vs the D series. If the 102C3 had a 60 series, how would you compare the two coaches? So besides engine/power, I'm curious as to drivability comfort etc?


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[thomasinnv]

Yeah that one is way out of my price range. Nice bus but I would have to rip it all out and redo it anyway. With 5 kids bunks are a must. I like the idea of designing and building it from the ground up. Done it once, now I know what things I would do differently.

[AdamWalkup]

I do understand the thoughts on wanting to convert yourself, but it has to be the hobby, where many like me the bus used for the hobby, and you sure can't duplicate what can be purchased.

As far as the differences, there are a lot of similarities, and a lot of differences.  When you take out the interior updates (fabric ceiling, etc.) the C is a lot like the A.  When they went to the "flat back" C they made some changes, including heavier differential, and the most important, the larger radiators mounted flat across the back.  As much as I like S60 engines, the 8v92 is strong, and can really run, but the earlier C's cant cool it.  My Dad's 90 C model with 8V92 could easily be turned up, but just won't cool it.  We have done every trick in the book, from new high efficiency radiators to "scoops" to sealing air gaps, but it will still overheat if pushed, particularly in the mountains.  I think his is set at 410 hp, and when climbing the temperature goes up, his foot comes out of it, and once he gets below about 20 mph the torque converter unlocks, and then the temperature REALLY climbs until he is sitting beside the road.  Anytime we are out west, I spend a lot of time sitting waiting on him.  We actually considered changing his bus to the flat back style, with the bigger radiators.  Now granted we are both pulling 24' enclosed trailers that are heavy, but the D with S60 does a much superior job.

I understand people wanting an early C with no DDEC, just to stay away from all electronics, but if you are going to end up with a DDEC engine, and ATEC trans, you might as well go to a D and get the S60.  A "C" is a well built tough bus, but the D just has some improvements, some suspension upgrades (but that's not a big deal to me) but most improvements are in the engine upgrade and the radiator set up.

[AdamWalkup]

I don't know if this link will work, please let me know, but this is a link to a bunch of pics my wife has of our DL

https://www.facebook.com/jamie.walkup/media_set?set=a.1424293691378.205457.1353830137&type=3

[buswarrior]

AdamWalkup, have you considered weaning the Allison off the engine cooling system in that C?

Some busnuts have mounted a hydraulic cooler in the curb side engine door, plumbed ahead of the stock heat exchanger in order to dump the heat before it reaches the engine coolant, and to maintain the cold weather warming ability. A fan with both thermostatic control and a bypass switch up front gives you choice in it's use.

Hayden is one reputable manufacturer:   http://www.haydenindustrial.com/?fincool

The heat rejection of the Allison is significant, taking up a lot of the radiator capacity.

You will recall the trouble MCI was having with the "D" early on with retarder equipped B500R heating up...

I wish I had written down some of the heat rejection numbers when we used to have experienced engineers lurking amongst us...

Who can find some numbers? Heat rejection data is not as easy to find as some things...

happy coaching!
buswarrior