Interesting perspective from pro bus drivers

[Scott & Heather]

Stumbled on this forum while searching out information about my Allison HTB-748 ATEC tranny in my 102. Spend a few moments scouring this forum. Very interesting. Basically a forum for Canadian transit and OTR coach drivers. This particular rant on the the J series coaches faults was interesting to me. Never even knew they were this difficult to operate from a drivers standpoint:
http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=16786#entry715130

This one about the various trannys was fascinating too:

http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=16417


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[Scott & Heather]

Here's the thread of drivers discussing the faults of the J series MCI. Truly interesting perspectives that might actually be helpful to us conversion owners:

9924's Photo9924
09 Apr 2015
This is just a bit of a rant I have with MCI.  Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against MCI and I really love the old D's ... other than a very firm suspension, they're a simple bus, put together very well and drive great ... no complaints from me what so ever.

But the J's, that's another story.  I'd really like to know what was going through MCI's heads when they designed this bus.  I've never driven such a poorly thought out and ridiculously illogical laid out vehicle in my life.  Was this bus just designed on paper with no one actually sitting in it before it came off the assembly line?

1)  The maxi brake release - the button is to left of your left knee and towards the bottom of the front dash.  You literally have to weave your arms through the steering wheel to access it and use both hands to push it down.  To make matters worse, there is a steel cage around it to make sure you can only use your thumb or fingers to release it instead of actually being able to use your palm and not worry about breaking your fingers.

2)  The horn.  The horn is on the bottom of the center part of the steering wheel and is a large bar that if you brush your thumb over it while steering or God forbid, do some paperwork ... it'll go off.

3)  The side view mirrors - both driver and passenger side view mirrors, for some reason are put in the position that seems to generate the biggest blind spots I've ever seen driving a bus, and that even includes the passenger side view mirror on an Arboc.

4)  The windshield wipers - now I understand that most windshield wipers don't cover the whole windshield, not a biggie.  But in a J, the passenger side wiper leaves a good foot of windshield on the far right that isn't touched.  Normally not a big deal, but guess where the passenger side view mirror is?  Right smack dab in the middle of the one area of the windshield that not only doesn't get cleaned, but ends up the dirtiest by pushing all the grime and dirt directly into the one spot on the windshield you really need to stay clean.

Seriously MCI, from a driver's point of view ... for your next bus, I strongly suggest you get some feedback from people who actually drive your product on a day to day basis.
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northwesterner's Photonorthwesterner
09 Apr 2015
I've complained endlessly about the E/J driver's area on this list and other's for years.

I agree with some of what you say.

Keep in mind, when MCI designed the E-model, they hired so big shot designers to make the driver's area look good (spiral stairs, dashboard, etc). They didn't give a crap about functionality.

Believe it or not, the most recently J4500 dashboard, is much better than earlier E/J dashboard. The original dash had idiot lights where you couldn't see them, and a speedometer that was totally obscured by the wheel if you didn't put the wheel in your lap. Those issues have been resolved.

The mirror placement and sidebar is awful. MCI doesn't want to spend the cash to redesign this area. I don't know why. Its terrible.

The mirrors themselves are also pretty awful. The flat mirror is too big and the convex to small, leading to large blindspots.

I don't have an issue with the parking brake. I always put my arm on my left knee and found the knob that way. MCI has always placed a cover over their parking break; on earlier coaches when the brake was on the right side it was under a spring loaded flap.

As for the steering wheel, that wheel is a standard wheel from VIP wheels (who makes nearly all OEM truck/bus wheel these days). I'd prefer a different one too, but unless they specifically engineer one, it looks like that's what we're stuck with.
Jay_L's PhotoJay_L
01 Jun 2015
I've also always disliked the way the buttons and switches are laid out on the dash. Plus there's about 7 buttons just for lights. Everything feels cheap.

The driver's cockpit is one of the main reasons why, for me, Prevost are above MCI. J's handle better than H3's but that's pretty much the only thing they have on them.
Jack 47's PhotoJack 47
03 Aug 2015
Did anyone ever get stranded on an E or J MCI bus?  They seem to have many more issues than the Prevosts: frame flexes that slice 24v cables, locked front brakes, climate control system that can't handle the Canadian cold, various electrical issues that force you to "re-boot"/restart the bus to make certain accessories work, and a collection bin full of broken overhead luggage latches in each MCI bus.  The one advantage that I noted from drivers is the fact that MCI Renaissance and J4500 buses are less likely to make passengers motion sick, and they have better handling in the curves.  The Prevosts, with a softer suspension, ride like boats.  I find them easier to go around corners with the liftable third axle.
Jay_L's PhotoJay_L
05 Dec 2015
Even as a Prevost fanboy, I would say they both have roughly the same amount of issues. Both reliable machines, generally. We have mostly Prevosts but the few MCI we have serve us well. Aftersale service is much better with Prevost though.

And yes, the the J- and E-Series handle better than H3s. Personally, I find the best riding bus is the X3, as far as handling and dealing with wind. We have a model with a longer wheelbase than the regular production model (it was a demo). Most comfortable bus i've driven. Unfortunately it has the jerk-o-matic trans.


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[CrabbyMilton]

Very interesting indeed. While I have never had the pleasure yet of driving a bus, the drivers I have talked to seem to like the J. They didn't have too many bad things to say about PREVOST products and not very nice things to say about the MCI E. We have to remember that the J was really an improved E. So perhaps MCI made improvements on the latest generation of J4500's
Very true in that you would think they would design something right to begin with instead, take the chance of souring customers.
I love that comment on the transmission on the PREVOST X. Jerkomatic. That can only mean one of those automated manuals that most of the drivers I talk to don't like.

[oltrunt]

Good read Scott.  Thanks for making it so available.  Jack

[RJ]

RE: The Allison Transmission thread linked to by Scott.

Ah, yes, good old Benjamin, the master of oddball bus trivia.

[Scott & Heather]

RJ, you actually know someone on that transmission forum?


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