Super Single Rims?

[dgorila1]

Has anyone ever considered or changed the rear dual rim configuration to a Super Single rim/tire like many Class 8 HDT rigs run? The rim/tire should be more than capable of supporting a coach since a Class 8 rig tows 80,000lbs.
   Also, has anyone ever removed the tag axle? Once again seems like it might not be needed since a coach conversion will carry less weight than a normal passenger coach. Removing the axle would create space for more storage and be less parts to maintain/break. Would removing the tag axle affect the stability, safety or operation of the coach in any way?

[Lee Bradley]

You can limp in with one flat.  More axles gave a smoother ride. One more set of brakes. The tag will continue to roll, giving directional stability, when the drivers have lost traction during up or down acceleration.

[luvrbus]

My doctor has a new H3-45 Prevost that has the super singles on the drives with 365's on the steers and tag axle,Prevost has had that option for a long time but I would keep the tag 

[Stormcloud]

I would definitely keep the tag.

I inadvertently did not refill the tag bags with air on one trip, and the coach steered like crap. When I checked the bags ( and aired them both up ), much improved.

Don't try to re-invent the wheel. The tag is there for a number of good reasons.

[bigred]

I have seen a few Eagles with the bogey's removed .They were all the ones with the bogey's in front of the drive axle ,but have never seen a Prevost or an MCI with them removed.

[Boomer]

The 40' two axle coaches, ie MCI A2 and Eagle Suburban were not good sellers because they were often overloaded.  A bus conversion would be even more weight than a seated coach.  Best to stick with the tag.

[Jim Eh.]

I had a few visits from the engineers from MCI when they were bringing in the tag axle coach. At the time they were playing with self steer tag axles. Cornering stability and toe out on turn induced tire wear was priority I was told. I was to go down to the plant in Pembina ND but was denied entry in the US. They claimed I would or would have received some financial benefit from the trip. Never did try to go back just "for a visit".

[Seangie]

We are tagless in our 40' Eagle 10s.  And real close to weight.  Over almost 200 on the front and about 1200 shy on the rear.

No spares other than what's under the front.

Granted its cheaper to replace 6 than 8 but tags can be the old pair.

Having the extra storage is nice though.



I'd love to have super singles in the back!

-Sean

[Scott & Heather]

He's technically bogieless...and I don't think bogies have the same effect on driving manners as do tags. I have oft wanted to remove my tags but when you release the air on them it does wander more.


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[TomC]

I'll argue that seated coaches are heavier than conversions. At least with mine. If you use 160lbs as the average person, and that my transit is rated for 53, that works out to be 8,480lbs-which makes sense since the empty weight of my bus stripped was 28,000lbs and the gvw is 36,000lbs.
Conversion wise, from completely stripped bus, to everything installed, with all my junk, tanks full with both my wife and I on board, we added just 3,000lbs. I'm using 4,000lbs as the conversion weight on my truck. My truck also weighed in at 28,000lbs when I started, so I'm thinking it will be 32-34,000lbs when done. Considering a 50,000lb GVW, not even close to being overloaded. Good Luck, TomC

[Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM]

On the positive side however, with single sneakers on the rear you would gain much more traction in the snow.  In a previous life, I used to plow snow for the town.  Sometimes, during a really bad snowstorm we would remove one of the rear wheels from the duallies on each side of the plow truck.

This would have the effect of increasing the traction significantly because there is less surface area on the ground and hence more pressure per square inch i.e. F = MA, so the tires would dig down into the hard surface to gain more traction instead of spinning on the soft snow.

On the extreme end of the scale is the bulldozer. A dozer cannot get any traction on ice.  The slightest hill and they are spinning and sliding sideway. There is too much surface area touching the ground hence no pressure per square inch of track.  However this is also why you can run a dozer on ice only 4" thick whereas a truck would fall thru i.e. significantly less pressure per square inch on the ice.  John Dennison used to do this all of the time on his Ice Roads in Canada.

So if you travel frequently in snow country, this may be an added bonus for you.  Of course, good chains always help too, but they take time to put on, unless of course you have good leveling jacks that will lift your rig completely off the ground then it is a piece of cake.  But not as easy as automatic chains like ambulances and fire trucks have.  An Action Mobil a friend of mine had that I almost bought has this setup too.

This is the ultimate RV in my mind and is on my Bucket List.  If you plan to travel in heavy snow, this is the rig for you.

http://www.actionmobil.com/en/

So what if some folks say it looks like a Garbage Truck.

[dgorila1]

On the positive side however, with single sneakers on the rear you would gain much more traction in the snow.  In a previous life, I used to plow snow for the town.  Sometimes, during a really bad snowstorm we would remove one of the rear wheels from the duallies on each side of the plow truck.

This would have the effect of increasing the traction significantly because there is less surface area on the ground and hence more pressure per square inch i.e. F = MA, so the tires would dig down into the hard surface to gain more traction instead of spinning on the soft snow.

On the extreme end of the scale is the bulldozer. A dozer cannot get any traction on ice.  The slightest hill and they are spinning and sliding sideway. There is too much surface area touching the ground hence no pressure per square inch of track.  However this is also why you can run a dozer on ice only 4" thick whereas a truck would fall thru i.e. significantly less pressure per square inch on the ice.  John Dennison used to do this all of the time on his Ice Roads in Canada.

So if you travel frequently in snow country, this may be an added bonus for you.  Of course, good chains always help too, but they take time to put on, unless of course you have good leveling jacks that will lift your rig completely off the ground then it is a piece of cake.  But not as easy as automatic chains like ambulances and fire trucks have.  An Action Mobil a friend of mine had that I almost bought has this setup too.

This is the ultimate RV in my mind and is on my Bucket List.  If you plan to travel in heavy snow, this is the rig for you.

http://www.actionmobil.com/en/

So what if some folks say it looks like a Garbage Truck.

Expedition Vehicles! These things are awesome! Probably not practical unless you do a lot of boondocking out west in the rockies and on public land, or travel other parts of the world where the roads are not as good, but they are engineered to stand up to anything and do well in extreme temps! I agree they would be on my list of items to buy if I hit the lottery though. 

[easystreet]

You may want to consider the "what if's" in the case of having a flat. Not only is stability and issue but also now you need to carry a second spare to match the super single or take your chances finding one. The wide base tires are still not readily available off the beaten Interstate path. The wheel is also considerably more expensive and the likely hood of damage to the wheel in a heavily loaded single axle situation is much more likely.
Also converting a single axle originally equipped with duals may be illegal depending upon the state. Washington still has a law on the books that says that all single axles over 10,000lbs (excluding steer axles) must be equipped with duals. Prior to the current 4 axle fuel tanker pull trailers I used to see a lot of 3 axle fuel tanker pull trailers (1 axle in front, tandems in rear)  in Washington with duals on front and super singles on rear tandems. Always figured the law was why and that it was aimed at vehicle stability in the event of a flat / blowout ie still having a second tire at that location to carry the load until getting stopped or slowing down. Food for thought.

[TomC]

Michelin has OK'd Super singles for single axle.
As to blow outs-one company I knew switched from duals to super singles. They're flat rate went down to 15% compared to before. Mainly because most duals are 14ply rated and super singles are 20ply rated. Personally, I'll stick with the redundancy of duals over the slight fuel savings you'll get with super singles. Plus there isn't a super single made to replace the 11R-24.5 yet. The 445/50R-22.5 replaces the 295/75R-22.5 or 275/80R-22.5. The 455/55R-22.5 replaces the 11R-22.5. Good Luck, TomC