The down and dirty of coach heat

[Lee Bradley]

     What's the size of this, Lee?  It looks really compact.

It is about 6 x 8 x 12 inches and has 3/4" water connections

[TomC]

The thing about an RV style forced air propane furnace is, they are simple, many RV stores have parts and don't require all the pumps, heat exchangers, plumbing, ignitor problems that hydronic heat has. If you're in cold weather, just use two furnaces. My single 40,000btu has no problem heating my bus (coldest I've been in is 17). For the cost of two propane furnaces and the propane tank, you'd have to spend close to 3 times that amount for an Aquahot type system. Good Luck, TomC

[buswarrior]

Don't forget that the water system (and whatever else you. Have in the bays that matters) has to be kept from freezing in these hard core conditions.

And the various engines will need starting assistance...

Keeping warm upstairs isn't the whole challenge...!

One of those 17K webastos would be a lovely piece of the puzzle!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

[Lee Bradley]

Don't forget that the water system (and whatever else you. Have in the bays that matters) has to be kept from freezing in these hard core conditions.

And the various engines will need starting assistance...

Keeping warm upstairs isn't the whole challenge...!

One of those 17K webastos would be a lovely piece of the puzzle!

happy coaching!
buswarrior

I have the Webasto in the basement and between the water manifolds, pumps, and exhaust pipe it keeps the basements toasty warm. Also have a loop to the engine and about hour of hot water circulation, the detroit starts like its summer.

[Scott & Heather]

Tom, I agree in terms of price point, but in terms of safety....when i discuss the fact that I sleep with the furnace on, some people tell me we shouldn't. Only use the furnace while you are awake they say. Well, as a full timer that's not an option when it's 20 degrees out. People really have to realize that there is a dramatic distinction between fulltiming and summer camping or snowbirding/fair weather chasing. My work sometimes allows me to chase nice weather but not always so we have to prepared for literally anything....North Dakota in January or Yuma AZ in August. People laugh at our small windows (I do too) but they are part of the reason we are comfy in weather extremes. I'm still convinced we need to cordon off the drivers area because windshield glass is impossible to overcome efficiently in terms of thermal transfer. 


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[goutoe]

Scott, lots of good info on this subject, after watching your posts over the years I would say you have the most experience in this category, I've seen more pics of your bus in the snow than in fair weather, I don't know how you do it, I agree with Tom keep it simple use RV furnaces that you can find parts for, use carbon minoxide alarms as well as propane detectors, stay safe and warm at the same time. I'm sure you could probably write a book on your travels.>>>> John.

[eagle19952]

....North Dakota in January or Yuma AZ in August.

This is why I have a 3.5 T AC and a 7200 watt (240v) central heating system and a 12kw kubota gen wired 240v.
yes it costs off the pole.... that's the price you pay.

and my 3kw inverter supports the peripherals when the AC is against the governor

[TomC]

How is sleeping with the propane furnace in a motorhome any different than sleeping with a natural gas furnace in your home. I have a carbon monoxide sensor, interior switch to cut off the propane supply. We've been RVing for 15 years, and no problems. The CM sensor has never barked. I wouldn't and am not afraid of propane furnaces. There are literally hundreds of thousands of RV's heated by them. Good Luck, TomC

[eagle19952]

How is sleeping with the propane furnace in a motorhome any different than sleeping with a natural gas furnace in your home. I have a carbon monoxide sensor, interior switch to cut off the propane supply. We've been RVing for 15 years, and no problems. The CM sensor has never barked. I wouldn't and am not afraid of propane furnaces. There are literally hundreds of thousands of RV's heated by them. Good Luck, TomC

have you looked at the circuit cards in a residential furnace lately....?

[Scott & Heather]

Tom, i think you're right, there must be a decent safety factor there for them to be installed on nearly every rv that comes from the factory. And I know i could go out right now and buy a new one and install it and probably not have any issues with it for years. I don't disagree with anything you're mentioning, but just for a second try to see where I'm coming from. I buy this furnace, install it in our coach. It works for three or four weeks flawlessly. I actually really loved it. Set the Tstat at 72 and walk away. For the first time I felt like I had residential heat. I ducted it to point at the kitchen floors so the floors even stayed warm. Then one night at 1:30am I literally wake up for some reason and it stinks inside the coaches turn on the light and there is a smoky haze. Go into the bathroom and see this blackish soot all over the white toilet. I immediately get my wife up and get her outside then I grab my 8 week old baby girl who thankfully was inside a bunk bed crib area with a heavy curtain separating her from the haze so her bunk air was actually surprisingly fresh still, and we head outside. Once outside I realize that black smoke is pouring out the furnace exhaust so I turn it off. That's enough to scare you and leave a bad memory. My wife loves the fulltime life. And my baby will adapt to it since it's all she knows, but keeping them safe and warm is my number one priority. That night literally scared the living daylights out of me so I'm gun shy about another furnace. FYI, my CO detector didn't detect any CO so I think the carbon sooty smoke was just somehow making its way into the coach rather you than CO. Could it be a dirty orifice? Probably. I'll take it apart and see what I find.


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[TomC]

Scott-I really don't understand how the propane furnace could smoke up the inside of your bus since all propane forced air furnaces have exterior vented combustion. The only way that furnace could have smoked up the inside of the bus is with a crack in the combustion chamber then having an obstruction in the combustion air causing the propane to burn rich, i.e. smoke. To me, it was a combination of many things that would most likely never happen again. I still wouldn't be afraid of buying a new furnace and continue going this route.
You can get stink from Diesel heat if the wind is blowing the wrong way back towards the bus. At least when propane is burning correctly, it doesn't have much of a smell (after warming up). Good Luck, TomC

[luvrbus]

With diesel fired heat 1 thing you need to keep the diesel fuel treated at around 15 degrees it would really piss me off sometimes in the mountains when the fuel would gel in the filter to the Webasto.

Then you need to watch the exhaust the temperature is above 500 degrees and they have a certain length for exhaust like 5 ft so placement is very critical on those units so don't mount one up front and run the exhaust pipe to rear of the bus BTDT  . 

Mount it away from your sleeping area if you are a lite sleeper like me they are noisy and stink when first fired in cold weather the white smoke goes away but is a real pita for a few minutes.They are expensive to maintain over time you can buy a RV furnace for the price of just 1 part for a Webasto without labor and time to install.It gets down to what one prefers in heating we all are different JMO               

[Lin]

Scott, The combustion chamber is completely isolated from the interior.  If, for whatever reason, it starts producing soot it should be blown outside with the rest of the combustion gases.  If the smoke was coming inside than the chamber is broken or the smoke is coming in from the outside somehow.  Since you mention that you can hear rust flakes when you move the furnace, it would not be surprising to learn that it is cracked.

I certainly can understand your need for caution here, especially since you have not determined the cause of the problem.  However, combustion chambers have a lifespan.  Years of exposure to humid air and the continual expansion of contraction will eventually kill them.  Now, since most RVs are used on an intermittent basis, people like me can have 25+ year old furnaces that have not failed yet, but if we started using it full time in the north country, it would be likely to happen soon.  Probably, the one you bought was just on such an edge; a good new one should have many years of safe use in it.

My point is that you need not be driven from a system you like because of this incident.  However, if you view this as an opportunity to invest in a more exotic system, then you should do what makes you happy.  In this hobby, some like the KISS approach, some like Rube Goldberg, and others stake out a space in between.

[lvmci]

Hi Scott, to follow up on what Lin was saying, if you have a natural gas whole house heater in your home, as so many do,  it's just a larger version with ducting, comparing to what we have in RVs. The gas/flame chambers also rust out in humid climates over time. And many sleep with that on everyday of the winter. There are a few HVAC specialists on the board, who might speak to this. lvmci...

[luvrbus]

I lost the link but Jim Phypers wrote a article on how to do a hydronic system using your water heater. I recall it being real simple just a pump and a heat exchanger or a old automotive heater from a wrecking yard and you could tie solar into it also maybe one of guys can search it out,I posted the link here several years ago