AGM vs Lithium Batteries

TomC · December 11, 2015, 06:39:28 AM

Have been reading up on AGM (not even considering wet batteries) vs Lithium batteries for my deep cycle house batteries. Now that the Lithium iron batteries are being used that have eliminated fire problems, I have been on AMSolar.com looking at both solar and batteries. With Lithium, you can use all the amp/hr rating and there isn't any degration of output until the very end-think of your cordless drill that goes and goes, then suddenly dies to need recharging. With AGM batteries, you should have twice the amp/hr rating that you should use to get maximum life. So here's the difference in cost: 400amp/hr Lithium battery pack is $3,300. Using 4-Lifeline L16 will give 800amp/hr at about $2,200. Which would you use? Good Luck, TomC

Oonrahnjay · December 11, 2015, 06:46:03 AM

Quote from: TomC on December 11, 2015, 06:39:28 AM
Have been reading up on AGM (not even considering wet batteries) vs Lithium batteries for my deep cycle house batteries. Now that the Lithium iron batteries are being used that have eliminated fire problems, I have been on AMSolar.com looking at both solar and batteries. With Lithium, you can use all the amp/hr rating and there isn't any degration of output until the very end-think of your cordless drill that goes and goes, then suddenly dies to need recharging. With AGM batteries, you should have twice the amp/hr rating that you should use to get maximum life. So here's the difference in cost: 400amp/hr Lithium battery pack is $3,300. Using 4-Lifeline L16 will give 800amp/hr at about $2,200. Which would you use? Good Luck, TomC

Hard call. There were some technical challenges with LI batteries not so long ago. Are we *sure* that it's a reliable, safe, long-lasting technology? I like advanced technology but I'm a little nervous being too close to the sharp end. Yeah, a hard call.

HB of CJ · December 11, 2015, 07:22:54 AM

Operational temp swings and mobile vibration damage potential may enter into it also. I also would shy away from the very sharp cutting edge stuff. Just me.

Dave5Cs · December 11, 2015, 08:17:03 AM

Tom here is the link to Williams site for his Australian bus VP and has mega Liths and solar and explains it all. He is over on Scotts Board BGM pretty interesting stuff. They run everything on them and has lots of solar panels also. HTH
Dave5Cs
http://www.motorhomeconversion.com.au/rvenergy/

belfert · December 11, 2015, 08:29:30 AM

Lithium batteries can only be discharged to 20% or the batteries can be damaged. Devices that use lithium batteries have a chip or something that shuts off the battery when it gets to 20%. That is why power tools with lithium batteries cut off abruptly in many cases.

Power tools have had lithium batteries for close to 10 years with few issues. I can't imagine an RV is harder on batteries than power tools are.

Lin · December 11, 2015, 09:31:46 AM

I would probably wait on the lithium until there was more substantial road use information. The few times I have gotten excited about a new technology and tried to be an early adopter have had mixed results. Also, the 33% cost differential would be significant to me.

luvrbus · December 11, 2015, 01:23:53 PM

I was watching the news seems like the lithium batteries in the hover boards are causing lots of fires and are banned by the airlines

kyle4501 · December 11, 2015, 02:28:53 PM

I know you don't like the wet batteries . . . . But -
2 8D's will get you 650 amp/hrs for $400.

The AGM & lithium are less maintenance -

So, the question is how much convenience do you want to afford?

Your coach, do what ever makes it more enjoyable for you.

TomC · December 11, 2015, 06:43:46 PM

Kyle-I know about the lack of maintenance required for AGM. My first set of 2-8D batteries from Lifeline (rated at 510amp/hrs total) lasted 7 years. In that 7 years I did nothing as far as maintenance to the batteries-not even clean the terminals since AGM batteries do not outgas (unless overcharged). I will never go back to a wet battery no matter how cheap that wet battery may be. Good Luck, TomC

belfert · December 11, 2015, 06:56:19 PM

I got six or seven years out of a set of slightly used AGM batteries I got for $100 each. They were not a standard size that weighed 100 pounds each and I think were about 100 AH. They were in a very warm area on a trip in 2013 and I think that killed them. They could no longer keep the bus running overnight after that.

I got a free set of AGM batteries this year that I hope will last at least a few years. The batteries were in telecom service and the telecom was just going to scrap them. The equipment was being decommissioned and the batteries still have some life in them. The telco wasn't going to put old batteries in a new installation.

eagle19952 · December 12, 2015, 03:52:32 AM

After Clifford's mess this summer...besure that there is adequate cooling and air circulation...

Cary and Don · December 12, 2015, 12:06:52 PM

Technomadia has a really good blog about their lithium batteries after one year in service. You might want to read it before deciding. It seems they do have a short life expectancy.

Don and Cary

Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM · December 12, 2015, 01:08:55 PM

Check out the Technomads website for a series of articles on Lithium batteries for the most up-to-date information. www.technomadia.com/lithium

belfert · December 13, 2015, 11:03:57 AM

I wonder if the lithium batteries can be left to just sit over the winter with no charging? It gets way below 32F here and I don't heat my bus over the winter.

It is unlikely I would ever get lithium batteries, but maybe if the price comes down significantly. I would probably go with two 8D AGMs if I needed batteries today and just run my generator more often.

luvrbus · December 13, 2015, 01:10:19 PM

Aren't they still having trouble with the Lithium batteries on the Boeing with thermal runaway. There was a Jet from Japan grounded at Phoenix last week from a Lithium battery fire according to the news